Command Tent II - Cavalry OOC Thread

[Taethowen]

Outside the Dragon Room, on a protected side of the formidable building, is a large tent. It's outside is decorated with the colors of each Eored, and ceorls and messengers can be seen coming and going constantly. Inside the tent is furnished with a large table in the center and surrounded by comfortable chairs. Food and drinks (but no strong alcohol, especially not Bilewitdox) are laid out for those who want it. This is the Command Tent. Set aside from the hustle and bustle of the Dragon Room but easily accessible, it is here for the Cavalry to discuss, plan and talk about anything and everything related to the Cavalry.

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This thread is for OOC Cavalry Chat and planning. A place we can talk and discuss the Cavalry and have it all in one place for ease of access and discussion. Think along the lines of:
~ RP coordination and planning in and out of Cavalry threads.
~ OOC questions, comments, queries.
~ Suggestions and ideas for RP, threads, etc.
~ Opinions and ideas about the future of the Cavalry.
~ Concerns and issues.
~ Really any OOC cavalry stuff you have.

The Command Tent is meant to be an OOC place to ask questions, give feedback, make suggestions, and even question decisions made by the Cavalry leaders if you feel something is unfair or unjust. Nothing you say here will affect your standing within Rohan's Cavalry unless you violate Plaza rules, or are name-calling, bullying, or harassing another Plaza member.

If you prefer to contact a Marshal privately that is fine, but be aware we may take your comments to the Marshal’s Council for discussion, so please make clear if you wish your identity to be kept confidential. The admins are also there for you if you wish to keep a Plaza-rule violation anonymous even from the Marshals. You can report any incidents like this to the admins using this form.

Marshal Contact Info:
Please identify yourself with your Plaza username and Cavalry rank when contacting, but note if you would like to remain anonymous otherwise.

Email (remove spaces and replace parentheses with appropriate punctuation marks):
marshals (dot) riddermark (at) gmail (dot) com

Discord:
Shivased - Shivased/Ashley#6415
Taethowen - Rebekah Loper#4402
Gwai - Gwai#5186

From the First Marshal on the subject:

Also note TO ALL: In future, the Marshal Team would prefer any communication regarding the Cavalry to be conducted here on the Plaza. If you have concerns, comments or questions, please use this thread for that. It can be difficult to keep track of things on IM, and we want to promote open, transparent communication so that everyone is comfortable. Of course if your concern is sensitive or private, feel free to contact the marshals via discord or email.

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Important Links
~ Previous Command Tent
~ Lost & Found (Cavalry RPG) (ongoing)
~ Dragon Room II
~ Cavalry Courtyard II
~ Oath of the Cavalry
~ Records of Rohan (Archive)


Rules
~ Cavalry and retired Cavalry only unless otherwise planned for (i.e. other people helping plan RPs, new members asking questions, etc. Plaza Admins are always permitted to post with relevant discussion points.)
~ Please post in the appropriate color for your Eored: Eastmark Blue - #000080; Westmark Red - #BF0000; Meduseld Green - #008000; the HCMA will post in Purple (#670088) when advising/acting as HCMA.
~ Be Nice. No yelling, insulting, throwing manure, etc. Those who do will be tossed into the void (or the manure pile, whichever one we're feeling like)
~ Plaza rules on fairness, acceptance, and all that apply.

The second post will be reserved for a list of tabled topics from previous Command Tents, as well as new discussion points that come up in the current Command Tent.

Please use the requested topic tags in your discussion posts, when relevant. Simply put the requested phrase either at the top of your post, or where the relevant content in your post begins. Thank you!

[Taethowen]

Discussion Topics Table of Contents

New Topics from Current Thread:
Code of Conduct Needing Approval

Pending Topics From Previous Thread:
Thread/RPG Idea - Pæthfindian Hunt (Pæth & Seek?)
Cavalry Organization - Community Established Rules
Cavalry Organization - Council for Mediation, Additional Thoughts
Cavalry Organization - Terms of Office for Marshals, Additional Thoughts on Marshal Terms, Even More Thoughts on Marshal Terms
Cavalry Organization - Various Thoughts on Ranks, More Thoughts on Ranks

[Eldrith]

Just a note that I AM working my way to posting to Eldrith actually getting involved with cavalry stuff. Timeline wise though I've been waiting for her to get out of the Campian. @Shivased I did see the post with Jacen and I will definitely start there. LOL I figure it's probably the only reasons he's not hying off to Arn Freablod to go back a-hermitting for the forseeable future.

[Taethowen]

@Eldrith You may want to check the new Dragon Room thread. ;)

@Amadhrill (We have not announced a promotion for you/NPC to Aethelwigend yet, since we'd only barely discussed it with you. What type of help would you like with creating the character? What do you want to know about the responsibilities?)

[Allacan ob Burzum]

@Eldrith My recent Campian post is Allacan’s attempt IC (and my attempts OOC) to allow Eldrith to choose the narrative that gets told to the Marshals regarding her performance in the tournament, before hear-say and rumour sets in. It is, of course, entirely up to you whether you take her up on the offer in the circumstances.

[Eldrith]

@Eldrith My recent Campian post is Allacan’s attempt IC (and my attempts OOC) to allow Eldrith to choose the narrative that gets told to the Marshals regarding her performance in the tournament, before hear-say and rumour sets in. It is, of course, entirely up to you whether you take her up on the offer in the circumstances.

"Don't tell them I nearly killed everyone" probably wouldn't have sounded right. LOL

[Amadhrill]

@Taethowen I'll get back to you within a week or so, currently away on summer holiday with limited time and internet access

[Taethowen]

All right! A few posts incoming from me to get some discussion started on some of the topics that were set aside in the last thread for the elections, as well as a new topic to discuss.

Priority Discussion Topic:

On the term lengths of Marshals

PLEASE INCLUDE THE TOPIC TAG "Marshal Terms" IN YOUR POST WHEN CONTRIBUTING TO THIS DISCUSSION.

Previous discussion:

I think if we're going to go for voting we have to apply the other given corner stone of any democratic system - Set Terms of Office. I also think we should apply a a maximum number of terms served in an office.

Of course people can resign when they need to. Standing for re-election after a term allows the people to decide. And of course if you love your job, and are doing a good job this often results in you holding onto the position. Not always though, as Winston Churchill learnt after WWII

I don't remember who said it, but whoever pointed out that the NuPlaza is just two months old, and terms of 1 year or even longer is quite long in current days. On the other hand, all the nominees know much of what will come and should be expected of them. So I propose terms of 12 months for the future, however, for this first round, I suggest we do a little different, ideally I would like that one or two marshals are up for elections every 6 months to ease the handover and safeguard continuty.

Should we make a maximum number of terms?

I think not, at the present moment. First of all, this might not be possible if we are very strict. In this elections there were 5 nominees, and I think we were 2 elegible candidates who did not want to be marshals. Obviously, if we are very strict on, say one term maximum, then we might quickly (within a few elections) go throught all eligable candidates, and bar some of those best suited for it. Second, I do believe democracy is at the NuPlaza to stay, and that anyone no longer serving the cavalry and the democracy will be voted out fairly quickly. Thirdly, I find it is hard to set a strict rule for this at the moment, which goes for both the lenght and amount of terms.

(Taethowen edit: some post content omitted for length/clarity, read in full here)

Ok, on the topic of how long a term (and how many) Marshals serve:

1. I propose that we rotate Marshals out one at a time, unless real-life circumstances demand otherwise. This will overall create a more cohesive team, and get the Marshals used to being in-flux but also have some stability.

2. It makes the most sense that the marshal with the most seniority be the one to resign for each election period UNLESS another Marshal is already planning to resign for personal/real-life reasons. Presumably, this will be the First Marshal, unless the new Marshal team decides to really shake up the bag in deciding 1st-2nd-3rd. This then opens the door for each Marshal to get to work their way up

3. I think planning future elections for March/September each year is more than reasonable. This initial Marshal-elect team would have through March to really get things finalized and the Cavalry in the best shape it can be, and then either the Marshal with the highest seniority, or the one(s) who *need* to resign for whatever reason can do so. If I have it figured right in my head, this would basically mean that any Marshal would serve for a minimum of 6 months and a maximum of 18 months before coming up for re-election.

The anticipated schedule would look something like this for each election cycle:
- Marshal resigns. Remaining Marshals are bumped up in the seniority ranking, unless they wish to remain at a lower seniority. New Marshal is elected. In theory, this would rotate the first Marshal-elect team through by September 2021. At that point, term *lengths* could be opened for discussion again.

4. On Term Limits - I agree with @Amadhrill that limiting terms right now is not really an option. The pool of candidates is too small at the moment. This could be something that we revisit in March or September, though, depending on how much new interest there has been in the Cavalry. I do propose, though, that we limit consecutive terms to only TWO, and then a Marshal needs to sit a term out before running for re-election again.

Discuss!

[Taethowen]

Discussion Topic:

Cavalry Handbook

PLEASE INCLUDE THE TOPIC TAG "Cavalry Handbook" IN YOUR POST WHEN CONTRIBUTING TO THIS DISCUSSION.

This is a sort-of new discussion topic. Some references were made in the previous Command Tent about compiling all the Cavalry info/rules, but there wasn't really anything more concrete than that. In the past, the Kingdom Pages contained a lot of this info, but we don't have anything similar to that at the moment. What may be best, eventually, is to have a separate thread where we compile all this information and use it as a reference, especially since we have the ability now to link to individual posts (bless NuPlaza!)

So, Cavalry, what information do you feel should be included in a Cavalry Handbook?

Relevant Discussion Points from previous thread:

...is it worth actually compiling a list of the current cavalry rules (PCs must be 16 or over, only one secondary NPC except Marshals who get an additional NPC 'aid/ceorl', non-Rohir can join as long as they play a rohir character, etc.) to avoid any further questions or confusion? The Dragon Room opening post could also do with having Audley and Jacen adding to the roster if Grimthain is on there, a link to this thread adding in to the OP and you may even want to put in an OOC announcement in the DR encouraging people to check in here like we used to do for Roll Calls? Or do you think the mention/notification negates the need for that?

(Taethowen edit: full post available here)

I was recently asked if people outside Rohan who have a character in the Cavalry will be allowed to have a secondary character too? Technically their Cavalry character is a secondary character, but I'm not opposed to them having two. Makes sense that they would be allowed if everyone else is.

(Taethowen edit: full post here.)

On secondary characters, I don't have much of an opinion other than I would prefer primary characters to get ranked before secondary characters. And yes, we have always had a rule that others from other kingdoms can join as long as they play a Rohir, and if they cannot play a Rohir, they have to have a good excuse for not playing a Rohir (ie when I first joined Rohan, I was allowed to play my elf, but I switched to a Rohir when we went to regions because I couldn't think of a good reason to have an elf character in third age Rohan)

On other kingdoms having a secondary character? I don't see why the heck not. As long as they are willing to play that many characters actively that's fine hahaha.

(Taethowen edit: full post here.)

... Regarding marshals normally climbing the ladder of their respective Eored; I would like to think that people would be given an option to decline being a Marshal if they didn’t want to change Eored to the vacant spot, and the elected Marshals can work this out between them on this occasion. In future, it won’t be as much of an issue because it would be more advisable to replace Marshals one at a time (so you are voting for a specific Eored’s Marshal) rather than all at once.

...I know of no rule that forbids someone from being both a ruler AND a cavalry Marshal. (Sure there are no rulers right now, but if there were...) It is obviously discouraged for someone to be both, due to the effort involved in both roles and to avoid a dictatorship, however I didn’t think there was a rule strictly forbidding it, especially when there was a second ruler and admins who could step in if things got wrong.

We really need those written up cavalry rules, people!

...The rule was made clear by Shivased; only two characters allowed in the cavalry per player. I don’t think there is any need to change that just yet as we have enough players and we don’t want to fill the ranks with secondary characters that block others from climbing the chain of command.

Taethowen edit: condensed for clarity. Full post here.

Can I also suggest, that people cannot hold more than one rank/position per character. For example, a feldmarshal can't be aerest paethfindian, or a haelend can't also be a marshal. There would be exceptions, of course. The Laermagister is usually a Feldmarshal or Marshal. But otherwise, we are getting enough people now that it isn't fair to everyone if people start holding more than one position/rank per character.

(Taethowen edit: full post here.)

Discuss!

[Shivased]

Priority Discussion Topic:

Cavalry Code of Conduct

PLEASE INCLUDE THE TOPIC TAG "Code of Conduct" IN YOUR POST WHEN CONTRIBUTING TO THIS DISCUSSION.

a
The Cavalry has always had a Code of Conduct and rules to follow, but they were never written down and formalized. This is something that should be done to give everyone clear guidelines and standards to follow - what is acceptable and unacceptable, and what is expected of a Cavalry member. Things like:
~ Standard of behaviour - what is acceptable and not, IC and OOC
~ Timeframes for posting - what is a reasonable timeframe to expect people to respond to posts (i.e. trainees and trainers in training, senior ranks, etc.)
~ Expectations/rules around Godmoding vs. reasonable RPing in a given situation.
~ Guidelines for secondary characters - promotions, holding positions, etc.
~ Any other topics members think should be covered under Code of Conduct.

Previous discussion:

Shivased wrote:
I'm good with main characters getting promoted to major positions before secondary. I would suggest, for now given our numbers, that this means anything above Aethelwigend, which would include Paethfindians and Haelends.

Keeping ranks indefinitely I'm a little leery on. I agree we don't need an actual time limit and there is no reason to shuffle through those positions regularly, but part of the problem on the Old Plaza was that there was so little room for promotion, because people were around for ever. I think, eventually, people need to be willing to hand over positions like Bealdorhaelend or Aerest Paethfindian, or even Laermagister (Did I get that right? The Cavalry Trainer?) so that others can have a chance to be promoted and try new things. Again, I don't think there should be a time limit on those positions, but I wouldn't want someone to keep one rank for years and nobody else gets to experience it. It's happened in the past and it is frustrating for those who want new experiences. I feel like this is something that would have to be monitored by the marshals, and people asked to give up their position so it can be given to someone else, when the marshals feel that person has served long enough. Obviously it would be contingent on how long that person has served in a specific capacity (it wouldn't be right to say "you've done it for 3 months, that's enough") and if there is interest from other Cavalry members in holding the position.

Can I also suggest, that people cannot hold more than one rank/position per character. For example, a feldmarshal can't be aerest paethfindian, or a haelend can't also be a marshal. There would be exceptions, of course. The Laermagister is usually a Feldmarshal or Marshal. But otherwise, we are getting enough people now that it isn't fair to everyone if people start holding more than one position/rank per character.

I'm also not aware of a rule where rulers couldn't be marshals and rulers at the same time, as both Rowena and I have been both. Sometimes it has been unavoidable, and there are always admins or another ruler to help monitor and manage to ensure things don't get to be too much for the ruler/marshal or things don't go wrong.

Shivased Edit:Some content omitted for clarity/length and relevant subject matter. The full post can be found HERE

Allafyrefleorhtlig Wrote:
I think the concern is that when people hold them [cavalry positions] indefinitely, there is nowhere for a Paethfindian or Healand to progress to, and it can be demoralising when you don’t have anything to aim for.

I do however agree that there is no need to set a fixed time limit or ‘term’ for ranks others than Marshal.

To my knowledge, Marshals have rarely held a second rank in the cavalry as Bealdorhealand or Aerest Paethfindian, except on the later days of old plaza and currently when numbers are lower and normally only because there is literally no-one else.

I might have held Bealdorhealand while Marshal for a while because similar to Rowena, we had literally no healands. Generally though, Marshals are expected to drop their second rank as soon as another suitably trained person becomes available.
Including current trainees (and not including a couple of people who have said in here that they might return but haven’t initiated that yet) we currently have 12 people in the cavalry, which would mean 24 characters if everyone had two. Excluding Dryhtgumas and Sperewigends, there are only 15 positions of rank in the cavalry, and if we leave out the arguably non-essential ranks of Feldmarshal and Aethelwigend, that drops again down to only 9 special ranks.

If we allow only one Paethfindian and Healand per Eored plus their respective commanders, the healand and paethfindian ranks are limited and very often coveted; there are only 4 of each in the entire cavalry. I recall the days of having to wait months for a vacancy before I could even apply for either. My concern is that sometimes people don’t feel comfortable inquiring for a role if there is a name on the roster, even if it said something like ‘filler’, in case the person already there doesn’t want to give up the role.

Shivased Edit:Some content omitted for clarity/length and relevant subject matter. The full post can be found HERE

Discuss!

[Gwai]

My thoughts on Marshal Terms:

Agreed we need terms of office, so others who are interested can also experience the role. I think 12 months is reasonable, and are then able to stand for re-election. May step down because of RL (or IC reasons even) before the 12 months, or at that time. Like Ama suggested, it would be good to stagger, so we aren’t changing the entire team over at the same time, and I think March/September seems reasonable.

Consecutive terms: I think it’s fair to stand for election indefinitely considering our current numbers. Caveat here is standing for election, not just automatically rolled over into the next year. Every time the call for nominations is extended, the marshal should be voted on with the other candidates. Reasoning: if there is only one candidate who nominates themselves, and no one else steps forward, we may end up with an inappropriate choice by default. If there is an abundance of good candidates, then the Marshal finishing the second term should perhaps voluntarily step down and sit this next term out. I’m not sure how to make a clear rule for that exactly, but I like the concept. Perhaps a decision between the current marshals and the HCMA(s) if there is a large enough candidate pool to warrant the marshal stepping down? Or put a rule of say if there are 3 other candidates, then the marshal will not run again this election? I like to think that by that time the problem of numbers will be a moot point!

Taeth, with your timeline suggestion, after this initial election and these current 3 marshals, everyone following would have an 18 month term with how you’re rolling that out, with one person leaving every 6 months. Is that what you meant? I don’t think that’s a bad idea, but 18 months is definitely a prolonged period in office. I like that it gives the cavalry a chance to vote on someone new every 6 months though, and it would give more continuity not to have 2 marshals leaving at a time, and 2 new ones coming in. But 18 months is quite a while...thoughts?

(I'll work on thoughts about the other ones later!)

[Taethowen]

Cavalry people, please make sure to check out the current discussion topics here! Our two priorities for the next couple weeks are to finalize Marshal Terms, the Cavalry Code of Conduct, and the Cavalry Handbook.

Aethelwigends & up (including haelends), please make sure to contribute/respond to the Cavalry Code of Conduct discussion in the next week or so if possible. Tagging: @Rowena Ellenweorc, @Eldrith, @Elarith, @Allafyrefleorhtlig (as Grimthain), @Thalionwen Hunigfolm, and @Amadhrill

And everyone below Aethelwigend, please feel free to chime in on *any* of the discussions! We want the Cavalry to be a cohesive unit working together, both IC and OOC! Tagging: @Fairy Nuff (as Aelflaed), @Aethelu (as Dicun), @Éolath, @Dimcairien Luiniel (as Éomund), @Frostbite (as Walpurga)

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Topic: Marshal Terms

Taeth, with your timeline suggestion, after this initial election and these current 3 marshals, everyone following would have an 18 month term with how you’re rolling that out, with one person leaving every 6 months. Is that what you meant? I don’t think that’s a bad idea, but 18 months is definitely a prolonged period in office. I like that it gives the cavalry a chance to vote on someone new every 6 months though, and it would give more continuity not to have 2 marshals leaving at a time, and 2 new ones coming in. But 18 months is quite a while...thoughts?

Yes, one person leaving (or getting relected, potentially) every six months. We (or future marshals) can always revisit the Marshal Term Lengths in the future, too, and of course no one is bound to filling out that full 18 months if they can't do it. In which case, we would adjust the timing of elections to cover the gap, if that makes sense.

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Topic: Code of Conduct

I have a lot of thoughts on this topic, but I also want to hear what our non-ranking Cavalry members have to say, especially about the expectations *they* have about the responsibilities of the ranking officers. The things I'm about to highlight are my own opinions, the wording is in no way formal or finalized.

1. The Marshals are permitted a certain amount of godmodding in the Dragon Room (calling people forward, speaking with them, dismissing them, etc.) just to keep the business there moving along without being stalled by waiting for replies that could be days in coming, at times. (Though replies are absolutely encouraged, regardless!)

2. On Standards of Behavior... obviously, there's going to be leeway for personal RP storylines that are going on. However, when someone holding a Cavalry rank is acting, in-character, with that rank then I think it is reasonable that certain behavioral expectations be upheld. I have specific thoughts/ideas on these, but would really like other input from the Cavalry (both ranking and non-ranking individuals) first before I end up steering the conversation.

3. On Secondary Characters - I think they are absolutely necessary right now, because our ranks are very thin. I think it is a reasonable expectation as well that a) Marshals are limited to having their secondary characters not be a rank higher than Aethelwigend, and that the secondary character only have Aethelwigend status (or equivalent - such as pæthfindian or hælend, and should not be Aerest Pæth or Bealdorhælend) if absolutely necessary. I think it is also reasonable that secondary characters should not hold a higher rank than the primary character has ever held. So if a primary character has never held the rank of Aethelwigend (or equivalent) then the secondary character cannot either. In the case of @Allafyrefleorhtlig using a secondary character (Grimthain) as Aethelwigend currently, this is not an issue, because Alla holds the rank of HCMA, being a retired First Marshal.

4. Defining Primary and Secondary Characters - If we're allowing non-Rohan kingdom members to enter the Cavalry with "secondary" characters to their main Plaza character, we need to make it clear that the definition of primary character *includes* those specific characters. In this case, we should probably state that the Primary Character is always the character with which a Plaza member first joins the Cavalry, and the Secondary Character is one which they create after completing training as their Primary Character. Does this make sense?

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(OOC @Amadhrill Thanks for letting us know! Hope the rest of your holiday is wonderful and relaxing!)

[Dimcairien Luiniel]

Working on formatting my thoughts on this, so more things might get added as the conversation continues.

Topic: Marshal Term Limits
I think the 18 months term for Marshals with elections every 6 months, makes sense and if they wish to stand for reelection after and are elected again, that is great. Considering the small pool of eligible people there are at the moment, I don't think it makes sense to bar people who wish to serve and can serve in diplomatic matter. This is something that might need to be reconsidered at a later date if there is a growth in eligible candidates.

Topic: Code of Conduct
High standards for any member of the Cavalry rank when RPing as that individual is a good idea, whether in an actual Cavalry event or just milling about Rohan and other places of Middle Earth. I think in real life, military personal (or at least the ones that I personally know) hold themselves to a high degree of conduct both in and out of uniform. Obviously game threads would be held to a different standard as some people play them as canon/part of their storyline and others don't.

As for secondary characters, I have a bajillion of them by this point and rarely, if ever, play using my using my username character. I don't think it would be fair to limit non-Rohan members to just one Cavalry character while people with the horsey icon can have two. For me, Éomund is my primary Cav character, and if I ever desire to create another one, I would like to have that opportunity, but yes, it would make sense for the second character to not hold as high a rank as the primary one. Though, if your primary character gets killed off, can your secondary character advance in rank?

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Also, as someone new to playing in Rohan, is there a list somewhere of what all the ranks are and roughly what their equivalent is? I know there's a list of the ranks in Dragon Room, but as far as I'm aware, it doesn't explain what they are. I know a lot of the names are derived from Old English, and I've figured out a few over the last month of so, but I don't have the time to go looking up all the different rank names.

[Taethowen]

Also, as someone new to playing in Rohan, is there a list somewhere of what all the ranks are and roughly what their equivalent is? I know there's a list of the ranks in Dragon Room, but as far as I'm aware, it doesn't explain what they are. I know a lot of the names are derived from Old English, and I've figured out a few over the last month of so, but I don't have the time to go looking up all the different rank names.

Excellent thoughts/questions overall, Dim! I'll tackle with just the ranks right now, and make note that we definitely need to include what the equivalents are in an easy-to-reference spot.

Sperewigends and Dryhtgumas are basically privates. Dryhtgumas are just a bit more experienced, so think Private 1st Class (if I'm getting my military ranks correct IRL). Everyone starts in one of these two ranks, depending on how they perform in training.

Aethelwigend is a sergeant, for all intents and purposes. They lead a company of speres/dryhts.

Haelends are healers/medics. The Bealdorhaelend is the 'head' healer, and is usually in charge of training new haelends as well.

Paethfindians are scouts, and the Aerest Paethfindian leads them, and also trains new scouts.

Larmaegister is a trainer, usually a Marshal, Feldmarshal, or Aethelwigend also, and is responsible for training the new Cavalry recruits.

The Quartermaster is in charge of all the Cavalry's goods/supplies. At this time, we're planning that they rank as an equal to an Aethelwigend.

And then, of course, the Marshals are the joint-heads of the Cavalry, underneath the King of Rohan.

@Gwai or @Shivased, please correct me if I got any of that wrong!

[Gwai]

My 2 cents on the cavalry handbook:

The usual rules of PC must be 16 and over, and one secondary NPC seem fair and pretty standard. I agree with Dim and others that non-Rohan members should also be allowed two.

I agree it should be a Rohirric, or at least human character joining, unless there is a strong IC reason not to be (exception being someone like Merry in the books. Or if Legolas and Gimli had expressed a desire to stay in Rohan, I’m sure Theoden or Eomer would have let them!) But these would be exceptions and would need to be discussed by the Marshals.

The primary character carrying or potentially carrying the higher rank makes sense as well. I think that as characters evolve, if the member wants to switch who they consider their primary character with their secondary character, they should be able to do so (provided it’s not every other week!). But if they begin to prefer their secondary character, we should be able to switch that for promotions. Or like Dim said, kill them off.

It’s a moot point right now, but I don’t think someone should be a Ruler and a Marshal. If we ever end up having a Ruler, if this person was also a marshal, I think it would be expected they would step down in a reasonable time frame (say within a month), assuming it stays as it is now and there are enough good candidates to fill the role.

I also agree that each character should not hold more than one position (you can’t be Marshal and aerest paeth), like Shivased pointed out. While we’re short on specialists right now, I’m sure that will change, and I think it’s a good precedent to start now. If someone has skills of a specialty, it can be utilized, but informally (example: Taeth is a great paeth, and her eored doesn't have one right now. She naturally would use her paeth skills now if needed, but won't be ranked as one, and when her eored has a paeth, she will not overstep or "take over" their role). Eventually, this probably won't even be an issue.



Code of Conduct:
Time limits for specialty ranks: Shiva brought this up above. I think maybe we should consider having a time limit for Bealdorhaelend or Aerest Paeth, so others can experience the role. The other thought I have is that if a current haelend or paeth is ready for an IC promotion, perhaps we could consider making an aerest or baeldor spot in that eored, instead of just one for the entire cavalry. If we don’t think that’s a viable option, maybe we should suggest term limits of 1 year for these positions, and the Marshals will consider at that point if someone else is a good candidate, and then depending on that person’s willingness/availability, the change could be made that way.

Behavior standards: I agree with Taeth a standard should be set. I’m not saying a ranking officer can’t have a couple of drinks with the dryhts in the pub off duty, or take part in the Mordor lighthearted RPGs that aren’t really canon, but I agree behavioral expectations should be held, particularly the higher ranking the individual. (ie., he feldmarshals and marshals should not be getting trashed in the pub with the wigends and dryhts!)

My thoughts specifically:
--A ranking officer should never ask a subordinate to do something they would not be willing to do themselves
--A ranking officer should never put a subordinate in a compromising situation
--A ranking officer should offer constructive criticism, with guidance how to proceed/learn/improve. Straight up criticism is not beneficial.
--Ranking officers should be competent, and able to lead effectively, inspiring the confidence of those they are leading
--Ranking officers should be able to admit when they are wrong, and depending on certain situations defer to someone with more expertise. Example: IC Gwai hasn’t the foggiest notion what to do with an injured dryht besides basic wound care. She would defer to the haeland to treat (obvious example, but gets the point across)

Professionalism: All on duty cavalry members will be in uniform (exceptions granted for training purposes), well groomed, and acting with a professionalism that befits their rank. (As in, the Marshals shouldn’t be slumped over in the chairs in the DR, dryhts should make sure they’re presentable when not in training or in the stables, clean their boots before going in the DR etc).

Teamwork: No figuratively (or literally!) stabbing each other in the back. All members should be building each other up.

@Taethowen you forgot feldmarshal on your list

Edit because I forgot to mention and meant to: Eldrith your siggy is amazing!

[Eldrith]

Topic: Marshal Term Limits
I think the revolving access and 18 months are a good idea. I do like the possibility of exceptions being made. Considering our size, if a Marshall is comfortable doing the job AND there are no direct candidates I think there should be the possibility of adding another 'term' so to speak.

Topic: Code of Conduct
I like Gwai's summary for a code of conduct. I also would like to see a chance for chastisement/ penalties IC that need not to be figured out right now but that would be up to the discretion of the Marshalls. IE. If a Sperewigend has a bad day, and in a foul mood gets in a drunken brawl in the pub, spending a few days clearing stables seems like a worthy punishment (and fun to play) and should not horrendously reflect on what they are.
I think the code of conduct is rather two fold: things we have in there to make sure people do not abuse their ranks and also they represent the cavalry well. And at the same time the freedom to play out human mistakes and faults with a bit of humor.

[Shivased]

Cavalry Handbook:

@Dimcairien Luiniel and @Taethowen Taeth got it right for the ranks. That's about it. Sperewigends and Dryhtgumas are very similar, with Sperewigends beng the lower rank. Cavalry members start at one of the two ranks, based on IC ability and capability. So a clumsy kid with no horse experience would be a Sperewigend. Whereas someone with some skill would be a Dryhtguma.

Feldmarshal was forgotten, though we don't actually have any of that rank right now. It is second-in command in each eored, right under the marshals. Would take charge in campaigns and battles, handle training and day-to-day running of the eored so the marshals could handle the bigger issues of the Cavalry.

I'm working on a list of ranks and their descriptions/duties for the handbook along with a list of equipment/armour/weapons per rank or position as well. That way everyone has something to refer to that can tell them what stuff they should have and what their duties are.

Code of Conduct:
Position term limits: I like the idea of a term limit for the Bealdorhaelend and Aerest Paeth positions. It doesn't need to be a short period (a year or something is fine), but also I like Gwai's suggestion that if we have more than one person interested, we can make the Aerest and Bealdor positions in each eored. I feel like this might have been the way it was at one time? We'd need more people than we have now, because if we did it now we'd have a Cavalry full of paeths and haelends. But for in future, that would be a way to let more people experience the position without long wait times and the frustration that comes with it.

Behaviour Standard: I agree totally with Taeth and Gwai that standards should be set for behaviour. Gwai has listed the main points pretty well. Coming from a RL military background, a ranking officer or anyone in a leadership position never asks a subordinate to do something they themselves aren't willing to do. And the military, or Cavalry in this case, is never used for personal gain.

Professionalism: I agree that a Cavalry member is always in uniform and, based on the Cavalry Handbook once it is done, there will be a standard uniform that all cavalry members should stick to. Haelends might have robes they wear in the infirmary, but in the past the uniform has been pretty loose. It looks more professional IC if we are all wearing the same thing.
I think a note about alcohol on duty is important too. Beer, ale, etc. are normal given the state of drinking water in the medieval period, but stronger drinks like whiskey, bilewitdox and stuff should not be drank on duty except if special arrangements have been made.

Punishment/ChastisementOn a smaller IC scale, I like what Eldrith suggests. That would be fun! Someone show up out of uniform? stand off to the side holding your sword in your palms, arms outstretched for 30 min. (I may or may not have had to do this with a rifle a couple times).
More serious discipline (harassment, bullying, etc) will obviously be different and dealt with in a different way. That's something that will have to be worked out, but ultimately will be something probably be handled by the marshals and admins.

@Eldrith Exactly right for the Code of Conduct. It will be there to set out a standard of behaviour and expectation for both IC and OOC, while allowing for us to still RP out normal people and have fun doing it. We can work the code of conduct and things like punishments into that, in a way that allows for growth and can be humorous at the same time.

[Lail]

Popping in quick to share some archive links I found while looking before I thought I'd share in case it saves you time or can be helpful at all.

Cavalry Ranks Page from 2009 and older Ranks page
Cavalry Equipment from 2009 and an older one as well
About the Cavalry

Have fun and congrats to the new Marshals!

[Rowena Ellenweorc]

Popping in just to say that I'm not likely to post much the next couple weeks as its end of semester and tons of exams/projects, so please don't hold it against me if I don't get input in in time.

[Allacan ob Burzum]

Apologies for not yet engaging in the debate stuff above; the lengthy business posts are triggering my clinical anxiety (no idea why) so I am going to focus on game-play for a bit. I promise I will sit down to read through it all at some point soon so I can overcome the nervousness and get my opinions up but I need to do this on a day when I am feeling calm and brave.

In the meantime, I must confess the reason why my signature is currently lacking in the shiny siggy is because I’m a bit of an idiot when it comes to images and links and things (only recently learned how to do links and pictures on NuPlaza).

Could one of the Marshals do me a massive personal favour and post the image link for the Eastmark Dryht signature pic here for me? So I can copy/paste the image link into my plaza signature. I am sure there is probably a way for me to find this myself but my mind is running a blank on how, so sorry.

[Shivased]

@Rowena Ellenweorc Gwai brought your concerns about Audley's eored change to the Marshal's Council on Discord. The reason Audley was put in Meduseld was because it is preferred that secondary characters be in different eoreds. Though you have RPed him for a while on Old Plaza, he has never been listed on the roster before, so Placing him in Meduseld was done to put him where he was most needed and balance numbers between eoreds, and also to have him listed somewhere when the new Dragon Room opened. The same was done of my own 2nd character, Jacen, who I used to RP in the Eastmark, but who had to be moved as well. Of course, if you would prefer Audley in the Eastmark that would be fine. Unfortunately, he can't go in the Westmark as that is the eored Rowena is in. As we had discussed secondary characters being put in different eoreds than main characters in the past in off-plaza discussions, I did not expect this to be a surprise to you.
We fully expect anyone who is not happy with their eored to contact the Marshals here in the Command tent and politely request the transfer, which would of course be granted if numbers and balance within the eoreds and open positions allow for it.

Also note TO ALL: In future, the Marshal Team would prefer any communication regarding the Cavalry to be conducted here on the Plaza. If you have concerns, comments or questions, please use this thread for that. It can be difficult to keep track of things on IM, and we want to promote open, transparent communication so that everyone is comfortable. Of course if your concern is sensitive or private, feel free to contact the marshals via discord or email.

[Taethowen]

The Command Tent OP has been adjusted to clarify a few things. I'm including this addition below since I know sometimes people skip over re-reading the OP and just move to the most current posts.

---

This thread is for OOC Cavalry Chat and planning. A place we can talk and discuss the Cavalry and have it all in one place for ease of access and discussion. Think along the lines of:
~ RP coordination and planning in and out of Cavalry threads.
~ OOC questions, comments, queries.
~ Suggestions and ideas for RP, threads, etc.
~ Opinions and ideas about the future of the Cavalry.
~ Concerns and issues.
~ Really any OOC cavalry stuff you have.[/color]

The Command Tent is meant to be an OOC place to ask questions, give feedback, make suggestions, and even question decisions made by the Cavalry leaders if you feel something is unfair or unjust. Nothing you say here will affect your standing within Rohan's Cavalry unless you violate Plaza rules, or are name-calling, bullying, or harassing another Plaza member.

If you prefer to contact a Marshal privately that is fine, but be aware we may take your comments to the Marshal’s Council for discussion, so please make clear if you wish your identity to be kept confidential. The admins are also there for you if you wish to keep a Plaza-rule violation anonymous even from the Marshals. You can report any incidents like this to the admins using this form.

Marshal Contact Info:
Please identify yourself with your Plaza username and Cavalry rank when contacting, but note if you would like to remain anonymous otherwise.

Email (remove spaces and replace parentheses with appropriate punctuation marks):
marshals (dot) riddermark (at) gmail (dot) com

Discord:
Shivased - Shivased/Ashley#6415
Taethowen - Rebekah Loper#4402
Gwai - Gwai#5186

---

@Rowena Ellenweorc Thanks for letting us know, good luck with your exams!

@Allafyrefleorhtlig We'll get those links up shortly!

[Elarith]

Marshal Terms
- I think it best if we only have 1 Marshal at a time swap out from now on (unless RL circumstances determine otherwise)
- Also elections twice a year (ideally the March / Sept split suggested by Ama) seems like enough. To go to 3 times a year, if Marshals were serving 12 months a time, would be every four months and somehow this feels like we’d just be getting settled from one before being plunged into another.
- That necessarily seems to lead on to Marshals serving 18 month terms, rather than a more reasonable 12, which to me would be the absolute limit before at least going up for re-election
- Marshals to serve no more than 2 consecutive terms - that would be 3 years potentially which is surely enough for anyone before taking a break
- Former Marshals can be nominated & elected again after sitting out for at least a 6 month spell (time between elections)

[Thalionwen Hunigfolm]

Non-Marshal Ranks

I like the idea of limited terms for Bealdorhaelend and Aerest Paeth, but even more so the idea of creating equivalent positions in each eored should we get up to the sort of numbers that would warrant such a decision. At least for awhile back in my day we had LOADS of people wanting to RP healers and Fea was pretty much run off her feet with training, so having three Bealdorhaelends would make life a lot easier should a situation like that arise. We could even rank Bealdorhaelends, as we do with Marshals, if the idea of maintaining a hierarchy is more appealing. And honestly I think the idea of having former Bealdorhaelends hold a rank similar to HCMA is a cool idea too, as they could help consult on trickier or more nuanced haelend stuff.

I do NOT like the idea of punishments for minor infractions as Thali is going to spend her ENTIRE LIFE MUCKING OUT STALLS NOW

[Eldrith]

@Thalionwen Hunigfolm I am not saying that that was a ploy to have always extra help when potatoes need to be peeled but I am not denying it either ... LOL

It's also why, more seriously, I said it's something that should not be specified right now. Because for some storylines a consequence adds to the fun play and for others it's a drag on.. I kind of think Marshalls and players should figure that out among themselves. ( But goodness I kind of like the idea of having a Marshal peel potatoes after a drunken night in the pub))

[Thalionwen Hunigfolm]

@Eldrith Oh I'm just having a bit of fun, Thali's a disaster and if she's made to muck out stalls, it will be RICHLY deserved. Set consequences for infractions would add an element of realism to the Cav that would be exciting to play around with!

[Éolath]

I don't, as of yet, have much opinion on things. That'll come, I'm sure, when I've the brain space to read everything. So far I like what I see. In the meantime - I found out I do have discord, I've no idea how to use it but if you get a request from tpuder#5574 it's me and I probably have no idea how I managed it.

[Dimcairien Luiniel]

I think the set consequences would add an interesting level of play to the Cavalry, not to mention giving good ideas for character development. Éomund will probably end up with his fair share of accidental infractions. I can certainly see him forgetting a piece of his uniform on a frequent basis. I believe it's been determined he's some distant cousin or another of Thali's.

[Rowena Ellenweorc]

@Rowena Ellenweorc Gwai brought your concerns about Audley's eored change to the Marshal's Council on Discord. The reason Audley was put in Meduseld was because it is preferred that secondary characters be in different eoreds. Though you have RPed him for a while on Old Plaza, he has never been listed on the roster before, so Placing him in Meduseld was done to put him where he was most needed and balance numbers between eoreds, and also to have him listed somewhere when the new Dragon Room opened. The same was done of my own 2nd character, Jacen, who I used to RP in the Eastmark, but who had to be moved as well. Of course, if you would prefer Audley in the Eastmark that would be fine. Unfortunately, he can't go in the Westmark as that is the eored Rowena is in. As we had discussed secondary characters being put in different eoreds than main characters in the past in off-plaza discussions, I did not expect this to be a surprise to you.
We fully expect anyone who is not happy with their eored to contact the Marshals here in the Command tent and politely request the transfer, which would of course be granted if numbers and balance within the eoreds and open positions allow for it.

Also note TO ALL: In future, the Marshal Team would prefer any communication regarding the Cavalry to be conducted here on the Plaza. If you have concerns, comments or questions, please use this thread for that. It can be difficult to keep track of things on IM, and we want to promote open, transparent communication so that everyone is comfortable. Of course if your concern is sensitive or private, feel free to contact the marshals via discord or email.

Actually you are incorrect. He WAS on the roster in old plaza. But that's not the point. Like I told Gwai and you, I understand the reasoning. HOWEVER just randomly putting my NPC somewhere without asking was very annoying to discover. Just because I know the rules that are now being enforced doesn't mean that its okay to place me in an Eored without asking. Also please next time, don't bring it back to where people can see it. I contacted you both privately because for me it IS a sensitive issue and I really don't like airing dirty laundry publicly. Thanks.

Also as a side note... can I get the actual link for my sig badge? It was placed in @Taethowen 's post as an image link so I don't have the badge link to put it in my sig.

[Eldrith]

@Thalionwen Hunigfolm Muhahaha.. I mean... do you want another helping of potatoes, my dear?

[Amadhrill]

FYI – I am trying to play catch-up with Plaza after the summer vacation, but it will be interesting to see how much time I can allocate to the plaza once normality (covid-19 edition, version 2) gradually returns as I return to work Monday, the kids return to kindergarden/school the week after, and finally, hobbies restart by end of August. Right now I am prioritizing the current RPs Ama is in. I have read through this thread, and hopefully I have gotten all the points and given my opinion on it, otherwise, my loss. Also, it was really a joy reading through this, so many well-thought-out ideas and opinions, makes me proud to be in the cavalry!

@Rowena Ellenweorc Good luck on the exams!

Marshal – I sent you an e-mail. I'll also have Ama report in the DR, eventually.

Marshal terms

I've already said pretty much what I want to say on this matter. However, I agree with @Taethowen on limiting terms to two consecutive terms, unless there are no (other) nominees.

I am on the fence about 12 or 18 months term. I would prefer 12 months, though I would also like to have just one elected at the time... Also, having a new election every 4 months is too much, in my opinion. So there I am with @Elarith.

Cavalry Handbook

I think the handbook should have IC and OOC rules, like two chapters or something.

I am not sure if this will be a problem, but in some of the big Rps on Old Plaza, as a hælend there were no way that Ama would be able to serve her eored as the only hælend, so we hælends used to frequently make up other hælends to do what one person didn't have time to. These were usually not NPCs we would play with in other Rps, so I don't think they will fall under secondary NPC or aids. More like, do all have the posibility to make up some NPCs when needed during battle etc.?

I think all cavalry members should be able to have two characters, if they want to.

Also, I do not see why the secondary characters can't have a higher rank than the primary, at least now. However, if/when we have enough members who want to have a higher rank, one RL person should only be allowed one higher ranking character, though the RL person will deside which, depending on what fits with their history. This should be made clear through the rooster so that any new member can see the easier ways to work their way up.

I also agree with @Shivased on the one rank/position per character. About the Lærmagister, if this is usually a Feldmarshal or marshal, does it need to be a seperate rank? Or should it just be one of the responsibilities of the Feldmarshal/Marshal?

Code of conduct

Here we already have the basic outline on the NuPlaza. Apart from this, I propose a «rule» stating that if you were the insignia/cavalry signature and RP as your cavalry persona, then you should not act in a way that will endanger the reputation of the cavalry and/or Rohan.

I also think that some minor godmoding by the marshals/bealdorhælend/ærest pæthfindian is okay when necessary, but should be very limited as already proposed by @Shivased (?)

@Gwai did a good job writing what I didn't really think, but once I read it completly agree with. I also agree with @Eldrith.

Having minor punishments for minor infractions are awesome. Though I am exceptionally good at hiding the color of my socks under the uniform skirt, the trick is to have a long skirt.

Non-Marshal ranks

The Ærest Pæthfindian and Bealdorhælend would benefit from being open for change after a certain time frame, perhaps yearly? A year seems like forever on the plaza for me at the moment... I really like @Thalionwen idea of having a HCMA sort of positions for former ærests/bealdorhælends, that way they are easy to 1) identify and 2) ask for help. Especially I like this for the hælends, as I for one have absolutely no medical background...

[Shivased]

@Rowena Ellenweorc We are sorry you are upset. As stated above, if you would like to have Audley in the Eastmark instead, that is fine. Just let us know if you prefer that and he can absolutely be moved for you.

[Eldrith]

@Amadhrill hurray for skirts

[Taethowen]

Here all the links for the insignias handed out in the Dragon Room by the new Marshal team, as well as a couple that have been neglected so far. To insert them in your signatures, place the link between the [ img ]link here[ /img ] coding (make sure to remove the the extra spaces inside the brackets so that code will work).

You can save these badges to your own image hosting place, or you can use the links we give you.

Also, in the event that we forget to include the direct image links again (it will almost certainly happen), you can always right-click on the link (or long-press, on mobile) and select "copy image address" and follow the instructions above to add it to your signature.

Tagging the appropriate people. If you already have your insignia, just ignore!

@Eldrith - Eastmark Quartermaster (Aethelwigend badge for placeholder, Shivased is creating a quartermaster insignia): https://i.imgur.com/Fd2hVep.jpg

@Thalionwen Hunigfolm - Eastmark Hælend - https://i.imgur.com/CThnCNb.jpg

@Allafyrefleorhtlig - Eastmark Dryhtguma - https://i.imgur.com/LOcnJYM.jpg

@Rowena Ellenweorc - Westmark Bealdorhælend - https://i.imgur.com/BiHlvw7.jpg

@Elarith - Westmark Aethelwigend - https://i.imgur.com/ncsLThXm.jpg

@Éolath - Westmark Dryhtguma - https://i.imgur.com/4bhFVb1.jpg

@Amadhrill - Eastmark Aethelwigend - https://i.imgur.com/Fd2hVep.jpg

PS - Sorry these links didn't make it up yesterday. I had to deal with a sick chicken (chickens are *dumb* sometimes y'all. She aspirated herself on *watermelon* and now I have to make sure she doesn't end up with pneumonia *facepalm*) and we had belated birthday stuff for my husband.

[Gwai]

I like Thali, Eldrith, Ama etc ideas/comments about KP duty or mucking stalls for minor infractions (not just wearing socks that don't match lol, has to be for more than that!) Not sure how to write it exactly, we don't want it to become same old or just for any old thing, but occasionally would be fun and make for a good story!

@Amadhrill I think it would be fine to make up npc's to use during a campaign when you need extra hands! Maybe the cavalry recruited healers from villages knowing there weren't enough or something

[Shivased]

Shoot, I hit "submit" when I should have hit "preview." Rather than edit, I will just post again.

Term Limits
I agree that an election every 4 months is a little much. I forget who, but someone suggested we do it every 6 months. So from here, one of the current marshals would step down after 6 months, and the next after 12 months, and the next after 18. Then, from there on, it would pretty much be every 12 months (I am not good at math. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, LOL) That way we only do 2 elections a year, and we aren't losing all 3 marshals at the same time.

Handbook

@Amadhrill I always pictured it in my head as having an IC and OOC section, just because the rules can be very different for each.

As for haelends in big RPs, I don't see an issue with creating NPCs to help with the workload. It isn't realistic at all to have just one healer per group in a battle. Kind of like how we create NPC riders/soldiers/cannon-fodder in the same big RPGs. There are going to be characters like that who exist only when needed and are not full secondary characters.

Larmaegister is a position, rather than a rank. In the military there are ranks, and positions. Ranks are ranks - the higher you are, the more authority you have and the more command you have. Positions are not always dependent on rank, but some are, as in the case of Larm. Usually the Larmaegister is done by the Marshals or a Feldmarshal, which is why it is listed at the bottom of the roster. It's a position, an extra part of the duties that come with Marshal or Feldmarshal. It could however be assigned to an Aethelwigend or even a particularly skilled Dryhtguma or something as well if needed. Really it's just a title to say "this person trains other people." (I hope that makes sense)

Code of Conduct:
Having punishments for minor infractions would be absolutely hilarious! I know growing up in cadets and then briefly being in the military, minor punishments were always a lot of fun, even if it was KP or peeling potatoes or scrubbing things with toothbrushes. The one being punished learns a lesson and has a bit of fun RPing along the way. Perfect! I also have a loooooong list of punishments that I can hand out

Non-Marshal Ranks
A kind of HCMA rank for former Aerest and Bealdor might be hard....In my thinking the retired Aerest or Bealdor would go back to being a normal Paeth or Haelend, so would still be there, still be around. I'm not sure how it would work if we have a bunch of "special" ranks running around,

[Thalionwen Hunigfolm]

Thanks for the shiny badge @Taethowen! I'm so FANCY now!!!!! *preens insufferably*

[Allacan ob Burzum]

Still not had time to read up on all the debate topics (I will get around to it at some point, I promise) but I just wanted to say thanks to @Taethowen for that really helpful guidance on how to do insignia pictures in our signatures; I really needed it! And thanks for responding so quickly to mine and Rowena’s requests

EDIT Ooh ooh ooh, I managed it. It’s so pwetty, thanksies

[Aethelu]

Having never had a character in the cavalry on Old Plaza, or I think had any character in a military role in any kingdom, I'm not sure how much I can offer to the discussion. I only have two points I want to put in as someone who has no experience RPing a military based character.

Handbook

Everything I have read about what is going into the handbook sounds great. In fact, it sounds like an absolute lifesaver to someone like me who often has no idea what they are doing. So far I don't think I've screwed anything up too badly, but the wayback machine has very limited access to old Cavalry threads to try and figure things out. I know I could reach out and ask, but I'm a big ball of adult anxiety who doesn't want to be a burden. A document that very clearly lays out what is expected of a cavalry character, breaking it down by each role really does sound like something that is going to encourage people to join and reassure those who are here who might not know everything. Or at the very least, it's going to help me

Code of Conduct

This is a similar thing, having something clearly set down for those of us who perhaps don't know all the rules sounds good. I'm especially relieved to hear about minor RP punishments being set up for minor rule breaking. It gives a newbie like me the confidence that I can play around with my character, develop his personality as I see fit, but I also know where the boundaries are.

I hope what I've said there makes sense. It's basically a case that what everyone is talking about doing is something I think is great for anyone who is new to the cavalry/new to a military RP. I'll stop rambling now

[Amadhrill]

@Aethelu I agree with you, even if I did spend some time in the cavalry on Old Plaza, all I know about military life is from JAG and NCIS and a nice and cozy norwegian reality programe... so yeah, it will help me too!

[Elarith]

Just to say I'm in agreement with the suggestions regarding the Handbook and Code of Conduct, they all sound good to me. I am currently lacking in inspiration for anything else to add which is why I haven't commented on them earlier.

[Taethowen]

Thank you everyone for your contributions to the discussion topics so far! We're working behind the scenes to whip up a handbook and code of conduct that we'll hopefully have available for discussion at the end of this week or the beginning of next.

@Shivased can you add a secondary character to the roster for me? His name will be Sighard, and so far in my planning he's just a sperewigend. While I'd absolutely love for him to be Eastmark so I can keep RPing there, feel free to slot him under Meduseld if that's where he's more needed.

[Shivased]

@Taethowen done! He is in the Eastmark. Things are pretty even now, so Eastmark isn't an issue.

[Shivased]

On the subject of the Handbook, while writing up the equipment lists and what each rank/position are issued, I have a question for the hælends.

@Amadhrill, @Thalionwen Hunigfolm and @Rowena Ellenweorc

What do you three think would be included in a basic hælend kit? What I'm thinking is a kit the hælends would carry with them at all times. Nothing too complicated, but a bag they are issued with basic supplies. They would have more extensive supplies in the infirmary and in the hælend tent during a campaign, but would also have a kit they carry around with them in case of emergency.

So far we have:
~ Bandages of varying shapes and lengths
~ Needle and thread
~ Small pots of various salves.

For the salves we thought ones with herbs like yarrow, willow bark, comfrey, witch hazel - stuff that would be helpful until someone can be taken to the infirmary and stuff that doesn't necessarily have to be prepared (or other herbs, please suggest others that would be more useful!). Would dried herbs also be more useful than salves, or vice-versa? Would it be suitable to carry both types? What else might be necessary or useful in a basic kit?

[Allacan ob Burzum]

@Shivased I hope you don’t mind me hopping in given I used to be a Healand and Bealdorhealand.

My quick ideas for supplies for a Healand kit, based on my Healand training with the wonderful Feawen, LARP roleplay kits and first aid knowledge;-

1) A sample of each of the 9 sacred herbs (fennel, thyme, crabapple, nettle, mugwort, lamb's cress, betony, plantain, and chamomile)
2) Willow bark
3) Honey
4) Various dressings and Bandages
5) Absorbant cloths/absorbent materials
6) Needle and good quality thread
7) Tweezers
8) Triangular bandage/thin scarf
9) Pins/brooch-pins

Possibly also;-
11) Matches/flint and steel (to light a fire or sterilise)
12) A water-skin of a clean water
13) A short length of rope and a old-style clothes peg (for tourniquets)
14) Potentially some known anti-venoms/antidotes to common poisons (especially if you are someone who has experienced being poisoned like @Rowena Ellenweorc)

I’m sure the others will have stuff to add to this.

Regarding salves and prepared herbs rather than dried herbs; Dry herbs v preparations probably depend upon supply and preparation time, and possibly also personal preference? I think at the bare minimum each Healand should have something for each herb, whether tincture/salve/ointment/etc. or the raw/dried herb.

[Thalionwen Hunigfolm]

@Shivased, my choice would be for the contents of an actual individual haelend's kit to be vague, so each healer can roleplay as if they've individualized theirs based on experience and preference. It doesn't really make sense for there to be a standardized kit, when haelends all know best what herbs they like to work with and what remedies they prefer.

As for a general first aid kit for Cav members, bandages and gauze, willow bark, small pot of honey, dried yarrow and plantain should cover it. Those would be the bare bones essentials. That way soldiers have got enough to patch themselves up until they get to actual healers, herbs to staunch blood flow, something for pain (willow bark) and honey to stave off infection. You don't want to load them down with too much stuff when the haelends exist and are accessible.

[Shivased]

I just realized I put in my above post that it would be a kit for the haelends. I amend that, it is a basic kit for regular Cavalry members. Haelends would have more advanced kits, yes, that would be put together individually. I completely goofed there.

[Amadhrill]

I can't really think of anything to add to what has been already said here regarding hælend's kit and first aid kits. I think having like a basic list of what the hælends will bring along, like the one provided by @Allafyrefleorhtlig might be added to the handbook as a basic outline for new and/inexperienced hælends. Maybe this is the bag provided sort of with the hælend insignia? Then, as the characters and person behind them, have more experience it will of course vary.

Also, I am planning on writing a DR post, only after the coldest July in 60 years we finally have sun today and tomorrow my oldest kid celebrates his b-day, so it might not happen today...

[Allacan ob Burzum]

I’m possibly late for some of the discussions but weighing in anyway.

Mostly I agree with a lot of what has been said already, so I’m going to add my support to anything I passionately and emphatically agree with and try to limit contributions to original thought to avoid just repeating what has already been said so well by others. I apologise that it is still pretty wordy though.

Cavalry Handbook

I agree with everything Gwai said in her “My 2 cents on the cavalry handbook” section of her earlier post.

Also, I think Larmaegister and HCMA evolved to be more titles and responsibilities, not really ranks anymore. They have sat outside the roster chain of command for a while and Larms have often been people who hold others ranks (Feldmarshal, Marshal, etc).

I also agree with Amadhrill that some more discussion or guidance on how and when to use unnamed/filler NPCs might also be helpful. Ama’s example was a great one; I don’t think it is logistical to have people specifically requesting permission from the Marshals each time just to fill up the courtyard with unnamed dryhts, engage a number of random sperewigends in helping clean the stables or filling a healer tent on campaign with a number of healands (I know no-one suggested Marshal permission was needed, just brainstorming). However I also want to avoid people indiscriminately making up multiple NPCs for their own five-way interaction with themselves in cavalry threads rather than engaging with others (that’s an extreme example but just trying to speak theoretically here.)

Maybe we could have a pool of established cavalry NPCs with a basic idea of their character/behaviour/attitude and any cavalry rider can use them as and when required? A bit like Cnith and Getale used to be in the Aeldsel Inn?

Can I also suggest, that people cannot hold more than one rank/position per character. For example, a feldmarshal can't be aerest paethfindian, or a haelend can't also be a marshal. There would be exceptions, of course. The Laermagister is usually a Feldmarshal or Marshal. But otherwise, we are getting enough people now that it isn't fair to everyone if people start holding more than one position/rank per character.”

I’m starting to realise now that this may be less easy to facilitate that we originally anticipated, especially if we are allowing people to hold one specialist character (eg paeth/Healand) and one lower command officer (like Aerest). I think we might need to make this a recommendation rather than a strict rule, and continue to encourage rotation. Alternatively, we could say no-one can hold more than one rank above Aethelwigend (So Aethel is the limit of one PC if another already holds a higher rank)? Or maybe more than one rank above BH/Aerest/QM and adjust that line when necessary? And maybe say no more than one Healand/paeth rank per person, to increase the liklihood of everyone being able to try their hand at one or both of these specialist areas if they wish?

Punishments

Absolutely; the cavalry is a military organisation and there should definitely be some disciplinary action, and that’s a lot of fun to RP. Minor infractions can be easily done through roleplay, but I think with major infractions we need to be aware this is IC and encourage engagement with the player OOC too, especially if someone looks like they are roleplaying a major infraction but might not appreciate the potential consequences.

A document that very clearly lays out what is expected of a cavalry character, breaking it down by each role really does sound like something that is going to encourage people to join and reassure those who are here who might not know everything.

This rider speaks my thoughts exactly!!!

A clear Code of Conduct for IC and OOC behaviours will hopefully make it visible what type of IC behaviour might get a character demoted or similarly punishes.

I for one am fully aware that Allacan’s failure to turn up to a cavalry summons will get her disciplined, and I am excited that Allacan’s recent behaviour outside cavalry threads may be worthy of severe disciplinary or court marshal. These are consequences I am happy with (within reason) and therefore my roleplay is exploring this, and I’ve told the Marshals so.

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Terms of Office for Marshals
I agree with Amadhrill that having a maximum number of terms that someone can stand for may hamstring us in the future when we have less candidates. Allowing people to stand for re-election means people can vote for the same or a change, based on preference.

I agree with Taeth’s original point 1-4.

I agree with many people that the 18 months on a rolling basis with elections every six months for the position being vacated would work; it seems like a long time and I suspect some people won’t stay in place for that full period, but it allows everyone a decent amount of time to adjust to new team-mates, build confidence and take on more responsibilities in their period. I agree with Elarith that having elections too regularly would disturb normal cavalry functions and a bit of consistently and stability between each is good. The elections are a bit disruptive and we want time for dust to settle and progress between each one.

I also agree with Eldrith that I think allowing some flexibility is wise, especially if we have two Marshals unexpectedly leave wary and the rolling 18 month periods end up being more close together (sometimes it’s not possible to avoid two marshals stepping down in close proximity for other reasons). However I think we should avoid if at all possible cutting a Marshal’s term short (excluding personal wishes of said Marshal) or extending it without election for more than an additional 6 months.

If there is an abundance of good candidates, then the Marshal finishing the second term should perhaps voluntarily step down and sit this next term out. I’m not sure how to make a clear rule for that exactly, but I like the concept.

When I ran the last election I communicated with every nominated candidate before posting the candidate list, to speak to them about their wants and wishes and concerns. People could express confidentially then that they were happy to step away then if there were a lot of names in the pot, but would stand if they felt there was a short candidate list. I gave at least one person an indication of how long/short the list was likely to be without naming names so they could decide if they did/did not wish to stand. And I think it’s important that candidates can anonymously retract their candidacy if they wish, even up to after they have been voted in but before they accept the post, in case something changes. It would be up to whoever was running the election to decide at that time whether it was more appropriate to re-do the voting from scratch, or just turn to the person with the next highest votes.

So yes, voluntarily stepping down is an option even in the middle of the election process. And fairly easy to facilitate if the people organising it are organised and discrete.

Terms of office for other senior ranks such as Aerest, Bealdoerhealand, Feldmarshal

I like the idea of allowing some rotation of these ranks so that no-one holds them indefinitely, and I like Thali’s idea of having more than one Aerest/BH (one for each Eored), but I think this should be only if our number of cavalry players warrants it (players, not number of PCs, because I don’t want to create new ranks just to be filled by people’s second and third characters).

The rank of BH and Aerest, just like Marshal and Feldmarshal, are esteemed ranks that people are proud to attain and I don’t want to water that down, plus it makes logistical sense to have a lead commander for each specialist area (so if we do have an increase in numbers and end up three of each, we may need a First Aerest, Second Aerest, etc).

Given current numbers and activity, I think encouraging more rotation of ranks and allow everyone a chance at multiple things is wiser, promotes co-operation, and helps people continue to experience fresh things in the cavalry rather than playing the same area/specialism all the time.

I don’t however necessarily think these ranks need a definitive term of office and it needs to be flexible based on demand, engagement, current activities/roleplay, length of prior service, stability in the cavalry (did we have a Marshal election recently? Maybe not the best time for a new BH and Aerest too), etc. I would however ask that if a Marshal’s team are minded to rotate their BH/Aerest that anyone currently holding those ranks is given prior warning (at least two months) so they can finish in style, wrap up affairs and it doesn’t come as too much of a shock.

I also think co-ordinated cycling of BH/Aerest might also be more fun to RP, and help these ranks bond together, as long as it isn’t too disruptive to the rest of the cavalry.

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Thoughts on Ranks
I like Thali’s ideas of recognising those who were previously Healands/Aerest/BH but I think we need to find a way to not over-confuse things.

Shiva and I once introduced cavalry ‘badges’ that were a bit like Healand and paeth training but didn’t come with a rank, so people could visibly show their skills in particular areas that weren’t necessarily associated with their rank; maybe something like that would work?

Although now I think on it, an honorific title might be fun if it was like “Councillor for Military Affairs/Councillor for Medical Affairs/Councillor for Scouting Affairs” for ex-commander/healands and BHs/Aerests and Paeths. It could work in the manner of a Medal for outstanding service wound be great to honour some special people, as long as it doesn’t become something everyone gets. The cavalry used to have a space beside HCMAs for honoured warriors (definitely had Feawen on there for a while). If this becomes a thing, I nominate Feawen for the honorific of Councillor for medical affairs and Taethowen for the honorific for councillor of scouting affairs; the we two set the standards damn high and in my opinion really fleshed our each rank into what it is today.

Also, I confess I am particularly biased to be wary of giving every ex-Aerest and BH an honorific because Allacan has held nearly every rank in the cavalry (including Aerest and BH) but she did nowhere near as good a job in those ranks as Feawen and Taeth, and she really doesn’t need more honours!

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Council for Mediation

I want to make a few comments on the HCMA ‘rank’ and mediation while I’m here.

I am very conscious of the fact that recently I pushed the intentions of this role to its very limits and probably even crossed a few lines. At the time my intentions were to help facilitate a fair and proper cavalry election from a neutral position, and attempt to avoid any friction or conflict between cavalry members who might be competing for the Marshal ranks.

I like to think I did a half-ways decent job in this regard, but I have to admit that afterwards I struggled to step away and distance myself from the organisation and command side of the cavalry and had to work hard to correct my mind frame back into ‘subservient’ and ‘advisor’ and not in charge. I made some mistakes along the way, got a little too officious in some kingdom business and ruffled a few feathers, for which I apologise. It’s one reason I have opted not to engage in these discussions for a bit and also handed in the rank IC as a semi-step down from the position; I wanted the cavalry and the new Marshals team to take the lead and for me to once again feel comfortable and at ease tagging along behind them without feeling any burden of responsibility.

And so I want to counsel against over-reliance of the presence of the HCMA rank. A mediator in a cavalry dispute should always be chosen to be someone best suited to handle the issues fairly and objectively, and that may not always be the HCMA. Advice from the HCMA should not remove the possibility of accepting/listening to advice from the rest of the cavalry soldiers. And I don’t think that any marshals team should be pressured into including a HCMA into their discussions or using the rank as anything more than an honorific if they don’t want to.

I for one know quite acutely that it can be difficult for one-time cavalry leaders (and ex-rulers) to not instinctively take over, and it can be tough learning to step back and let others have a go when you mistakenly think you know best. (I do not know best, I rarely even know best, I’ve just made a lot of mistakes and every now and again have stumbled on a success).

My experience of the HCMA rank is that it was predominantly honorific only, but that they could step in and help when necessary and when invited to do so. But they are not always the right people to do so and this should not be an automatic entitlement of the rank. I confess, I arguably took control of some things recently as HCMA when I perhaps should have, but I hope people understand the reasons why and can forgive me for that.

And I guess this is the time for the new Marshals team, and to a lesser extent the rest of the cavalry also, to decide what they now want the HCMA rank to be.

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Code of Conduct

Regarding “standards of behaviour” see my above comments regarding IC behaviour that might be inappropriate or subordinate for a cavalry member. We don’t want to stifle gameplay too much, but players need to understand that their may be some in world consequences for characters behaving in a manner that is not appropriate for a cavalry soldier, especially higher ranks.

I propose a «rule» stating that if you were the insignia/cavalry signature and RP as your cavalry persona, then you should not act in a way that will endanger the reputation of the cavalry and/or Rohan.

Maybe remove ‘cavalry persona’ (which severely limits someone’s PC) add in a second part to the last sentence that says ‘And in the event that you do so, be prepared to face IC (and maybe OOC?) consequences. (Otherwise I’d have to drop Allacan out of the cavalry right now because I am downright flaunting the first part of that rule with her current character development!)

I really like the idea of people only including their cavalry insignia/siggy with their rank if they accept that their post will reflect on their cavalry rank. As long as in cavalry threads your rank and Eored is clear. In the plaza profile options you can default so your signature is off and then add it when you are posting as a cavalry person; this also helps people to have some time off from being a cavalry warrior to explore another side of their PC (like Gwai’s dream about murdering hobbits in Mordor; she is definitely not there in her capacity as Third Marshal. I hope!)

(...the feldmarshals and marshals should not be getting trashed in the pub with the wigends and dryhts!)

This is Rohan, not Gondor! I think some allowance for drinking and merriment is fine (if I recall correctly there is a deleted scene of Eomer, Gimli and Legolas doing that in Edoras in the Peter Jackson films). Everyone is allowed a bit of fun, even Marshals, or to maybe drown their sorrows on occasion. I would just suggest maybe they shouldn’t be in uniform/posting their insignia while they do it. Or that they maybe get drunk in the cavalry-only pub among comrades so it doesn’t make the general populace worry.

I really love Gwai’s section on “My thoughts specifically:“ though; really nicely written.

I think it is also reasonable that secondary characters should not hold a higher rank than the primary character has ever held. So if a primary character has never held the rank of Aethelwigend (or equivalent) then the secondary character cannot either.

I respectfully disagree; secondary characters give a person an opportunity to roleplay in an Eored or a specialism that their primary character never engaged in and might never do so. I think maybe the limitation should be on having only one specialist, or not having two higher ranking characters (see my above comments).

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Topic Focus; Activity and Inactivity

Considering Taeth’s initial post and her query regarding “Timeframes for posting - what is a reasonable timeframe to expect people to respond to posts (i.e. trainees and trainers in training, senior ranks, etc.)” I personally think this is something that could do with further discussion:-

A slightly different focus; handling inactivity and players going AWOL (specifically OOC, not IC)

There are obviously plenty of OOC reasons why someone may be unable to play and discretion is required at all times to consider whether it is possible to support someone to stay involved in the cavalry.

The question is; should there be a time limit in place for how long someone can hold a rank while inactive (even for good reason) before they are demoted?

Do people have expectations of how active certain ranks should be?

Do people feel there is a ‘reasonable’ period of time for someone to be absent with leave or absent without leave? When is it too long?

How do these expectations differ between AWOL and absent with leave?

My thoughts/experiences on the subject

But from my experience as Marshal it can often be difficult facing a command officer (such as Marshal, Aerest, Feldmarshal) who is continuing to retain a rank while not really being around to play it. It is also often demoralising for the lower ranks to see someone senior not engaged and involved retaining rank and stifles motivation/progressive growth through the ranks.

It is often very difficult to diplomatically deal with absenteeism. Especially when it gets to the point that you have to ask someone to step down or demote someone when they often keep wanting another chance to get it right, or just a little more time to ‘get stuff sorted so they can post’, when time and again they haven’t done so.

Sometimes we ourselves aren’t facing the reality of the situation we are in that is making us too busy; it might be with a new child, our health is getting in the way or just lack of motivation. Sometimes a Marshal has to consider what is good for the cavalry and the player, stop giving new chances and put their foot down. In my experience this was always dealt with discretely and in private forums/chats so I’m not sure if everyone is aware of how it was approached or how it was handled.

From my experience in the past (and from my time reading back on cavalry command chats in the cavalry house when Éomund and Malorn were Marshals) the Marshal teams often try and deal diplomatically with any inactive Or AWOL commanders; they first approach the person to offer assistance, perhaps allowing a short break or trying and support then to return/increased activity. If this doesn’t help but the person wants to retain their rank, they then escalate it to setting down stringent parameters of what the person needs to do to keep their rank; so they know what is expected of them (eg. A Larm might be told to post in the RPG at least once a week and completing so-and-so’s training within a fortnight). In the event this also does not improve activity, the Marshals may need to step straight in and either temporarily or permanently demote the person, or they might allow more time/give a final warning, depending on circumstances.

I personally would like to know what people feel is a reasonable/unreasonable amount of activity. As someone who has struggled to engage in all cavalry activities the last couple of weeks but thankfully has minimal responsibility in the cavalry, it would be personally re-assuring to know what is expected of me if I were to take a rank. And as an ex-Marshal, I would love it if we could discuss together as a cavalry now where we draw the line on inactivity/AWOL so that I’m the event our new Marshal team experience issues like these in the future, they can be confident that everyone understands why they are approaching it in a particular way, and are agreeable with the approach beforehand.

[The Good Hunter]

So I am rather new to the Cavalry and it's inner works so I don't want to get too knee deep in the Code of Conduct and all that yet, especially when there are people already doing amazing discussion revolving around them, but I would like to ask about how one gains rank from a trainee on up. In Mordor and Imladris the system is pretty straightforward, post a certain word count with good quality and it counts towards moving up in the ranks. I have a feeling, though the Cav works differently. My question thus, is how differently?