A Villain's Redemption or a Hero's Fall?

[Boromir88]

While I was scrolling through Middle-earth memes, a pretty random question popped into my head.

It's fair to say Tolkien didn't believe in "Absolute Evil" as nothing is evil to begin with and everything is susceptible to the "Fall."

What is a more entertaining (and/or emotionally impactful) story to you, a villain's redemption or a hero's fall?

There may have been a brief time Sauron was capable of redemption and that could have been an interesting story. But I think I've always had a soft spot for Boromir's story, because it is a hero's fall. I believe it's also why I became attracted to Isildur's story, that is arguably an even more tragic fall than Boromir's story. The hero of the Faithful, brought down by Sauron's ring.

Then there's Gollum's story, which is the reverse of Boromir's and Isildur's. While I don't think anyone could view Smeagol as a hero (I recall Tolkien writing he was a thief even prior to finding the Ring). Yet, he fell even lower and Gandalf's comment "It's a sad story" has stayed with me after all these years of being a fan. Gollum's story ends with him as a villain, but ironically a savior (even if, unintentionally so).

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Boromir: I will reflect later deeper on your question. I got today a medical talk about my dad in his care home. What I can tell is that I never liked Gollum/Smeagol as mismatched Hobbit in the stories. But either points are quite interesting, redemption or fall. I will get back to you. Perhaps by an essay of my own?

[Rivvy Elf]

The first part is going to be a cop-out answer, but what are incredibly entertaining are stories of the same person undergoing both. Preferably the Hero's Fall and then the Villain's Redemption in that order (Villain's Redemption to Hero's Fall is... uhh... I might as well read history books to look at that).

@Boromir88 In the FOTR movie adaptation, one could make a very convincing argument that Boromir follows that path, the Hero's Fall and then the Villain's Redemption, resulting in one of the most heartwrenching and heartwarming parts of the franchise to most Tolkien fans in general, regardless how they felt about some of the changes.

And that's because for a lot of us it is incredibly relatable to Fall and then redeem ourselves. Only the Wisest learn from others' mistakes, as Benjamin Franklin (if I remember correctly) surmised, and most of us on Earth ain't the wisest. Most of us have to fall first in order to learn, a sad aspect of life I fear is not being communicated well to certain cultures and societies' newer and newer generations. As most of us grow older, we'll have our own fall and if we're lucky enough, we'll get our villain's redemption (many villains do not see themselves as villains, which reflects real life).

Now in terms of the preference question and actually choosing... Right now, I prefer to see a Hero's fall, someone like Turin Turambar though in which the fall is nuanced and is not consciously done in terms of "I'm going to kill all these younglings now cause I now believe the Jedi are evil." Primarily because it's fun to see what seemingly innocuous or mundane things can mess somebody up, and use that information for wisdom/reflection in real life.

Villain's Redemption stories only work for me if it is not a smooth ride, the villain lives, and the aftermath is bumpy and elaborated on. Most of us ain't aren't quick to forgive and forget, and many societies do not encourage quick forgiveness and forgetting (for good reason) unless it benefits their society. There isn't a lot of that compared to the Hero's Fall stories.

That's why I loved Starlight Glimmer in My Little Pony.

Of course, nowadays the only fiction I read to escape reality are comedy/humor/parody anime and fics, which are freakin' awesome. If I wanted to read other types, I'm usually looking for a lesson or meaning that I can apply to my own life. Hence why I prefer Hero's Fall stories over villain's redemption.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

What is a more entertaining (and/or emotionally impactful) story to you, a villain's redemption or a hero's fall?

As I promised I would give a more thorough answer than the short one I posted. The Hero's Fall never spoke really to me, because it is reversed form of hope. Partially it goes against my nature as I am an optimist in life. I get most of the time disappointed if the hero is not who he or she is. He ought to be conscious of the results of his choices and that he is not above anyone else. But where ratio and feeling don't well together, the hero get into trouble. Hobbits never caught my imagination, rather I got focussed on the differences between the Eldar, in the relation to the Calaquendi and the Moriquendi. Those who live in Valinor and their descendents and those who live in Middle Earth and their descendents. To them the concept of villian or hero is really appliable, but still. They have their good people and bad people among themselves.

But a Villain's redemption, for me there is a lot to it. I venture into other realms as my own inventions around these questions are more interesting to me, than portraited into Tolkien's tales. For me as an optimist it is an arduous search for sparks of good in what the villain is. Where does he uphold morals he is supposed to loath? Where does he give choices rather than just order around? At what level does he respects still someone? As there are no real interesting books currently or movies available, I love to write myself.

Hero's Fall comes to me as something inevitable, there is no hope anymore. That is no entertainment for me and leaves me emotionally drained. But Villian's Redemption, aye that is the opposite for me. But I glue this to my optimistm is life, as the instinctive reason for this choice.