Riddles in the Dark

[Drífa]

Hurray! Well done, @Periantar! That is indeed the hobbit I was looking for! All your deductions fit the lines of the riddle perfectly. And here is the explanation for the first lines.

I started with a positive outcome - Bingo Baggins was his father. Bingo is an exclamation to express satisfaction or surprise at a sudden positive event or outcome.
and an unlockable lock. - Chica Chubb was his mother. Chubb Locks was the name of a company in the UK. They patterned the first unlockable lock.

Your up! Hit us with your best shot, young hobbit! But not too hard.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Hobbit, you are a star.

[Ercassie]

If you will forgive my maybe spammable exclamation, I just have to drop to one knee before the smarts that have just been demonstrated in this thread ! I remember when that riddle first stumped us, .. back in MARCH 2022 !!!!

Mighty indeed are the Periannath ! Now don't you dare go easy on that Dwarf, @Periantar ! She's set the bar high for this game, and must take a turn at enjoying the challenge as do all who are courageous enough to keep guessing.

Thankyou for making me aware, @Chrysophylax Dives I shall go and do likewise to the sparkly ninja points fairy. Wow.

[Periantar]

Oh no! I've done it now! I've got to try and come up with one equally dazzling... I think it might be a little simpler.

*Periantar goes off into his hobbit hole muttering something about gold, and riddles. And possibly something else about pipe weed and some nice taters*

[Periantar]

A rushed riddle; as I always say, a fast game is a good game:

Wind howls with the breath of life;
Thunder rumbles,
Though Lightning does not flash.
Wind howls with the breath of life;
Harken and fear the boar’s tusk,
Harken and fear the deer’s antler.
Wind howls with the breath of life;
Ricochets in the depths,
Fearful memories echo.

What am I?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

It is on the tip of my tongue...

[Drífa]

It was on the tip of my tongue but, it slipped off into my beard and I haven't been able to find it since.

Is this Middle-earth relate or not? Thanks!

[Periantar]

Yes, Definitely Middle Earth related.

[Silky Gooseness]

Hurray! Well done, @Periantar! That is indeed the hobbit I was looking for! All your deductions fit the lines of the riddle perfectly. And here is the explanation for the first lines.

I started with a positive outcome - Bingo Baggins was his father. Bingo is an exclamation to express satisfaction or surprise at a sudden positive event or outcome.
and an unlockable lock. - Chica Chubb was his mother. Chubb Locks was the name of a company in the UK. They patterned the first unlockable lock.

Your up! Hit us with your best shot, young hobbit! But not too hard.

this sort of riddling is quite beyond me. Very well done Periantar. Drifa, have you ever considered working for the Times Cryptic Crossword? no?

[Drífa]

Haha, no, Sil, I have not! But it would be an exciting job.

A good riddle, @Periantar. I have a few ideas but must wait until I have more time tomorrow to reveal what I have found.

[Drífa]

I have been pondering these two lines:
Harken and fear the boar's tusk,
Harken and fear the deer's antler.

I thought it might have something to do with a weapon or a horn; ivory, fang, tooth and teeth were particularly on my mind. But nothing fits the other lines of the riddle. I have discovered that 'boar's tusk' is not only the lower canines of wild boar but from a search, "Boars Tusk is an isolated remains of a volcano in Wyoming." Also, from an online search, deer antlers can symbolize strength and power.

So, what would an old volcano and strength and power have to do with this riddle?

[Periantar]

@Drifa
Haha, good question! "So, what would an old volcano and strength and power have to do with this riddle?" Strength is definitely part of this riddle, but not necessarily through the symoblism you've suggested.

I'm sure you'll crack it before too long, this isn't exactly my strength, but hey, a quick game is a good game right!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

I feel like after the clear progress that we had made tidying up the unsolved riddles on this thread, we have now gone back to square one.

I found a Folca, king of Rohan, killed by a boar's tusk. But everything else points to the sea, to the storm in the Misty Mountains, or the speaking of a word, or possibly something else.

[Periantar]

@Chrysophylax Dives @Drifa

I must say, boar's tusk is supposed to be there, but the word "tusk" itself, whilst accurate, is probably the most misleading word to focus on - don't focus on that word

[Periantar]

I would like to offer a clue here. This is a thing in Middle-Earth which is involved in the LOTR trilogy and is man-made.

[Drífa]

Well, it must be a horn. Are you the horn of Helm sounding when King Theoden rode from Helm's Gate?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Well, it must be a horn. Are you the horn of Helm sounding when King Theoden rode from Helm's Gate?

wow. the knack.

[Periantar]

@Drifa
Smashed it out of the park!

Wind howls with the breath of life; -----> the horn has to be blown by the "breath of life," ie. someone's breath
Thunder rumbles, -----> metaphorically, the sound of the horn throughout the mountains
Though Lightning does not flash. -----> there aint no lightning with this thunder
Wind howls with the breath of life; -----> bit of fun offering another description of the horn's sound
Harken and fear the boar’s tusk, -----> "All that heard that sound trembled", though I don't know what it was made from, maybe a tusk
Harken and fear the deer’s antler. -----> maybe an antler?
Wind howls with the breath of life; -----> bit of fun again
Ricochets in the depths, -----> "But on the walls men looked up, listening with wonder; for the echoes did not die."
Fearful memories echo. -----> "Yet men said that the horn was still heard at times in the Deep and the wraith of Helm would
walk among the foes of Rohan and kill men with fear."

[Drífa]

Thanks, @Periantar! At first, I thought it was Smaug rumbling like an old volcano. I will try to get a new riddle up.

[Periantar]

@Drifa
Ha, I certainly see the Smaug connection. I wouldn't exactly say he had the breath of life though, more the breath of death.

[Drífa]

I was thinking more of the dwarves being long-winded, which would require the breath of life to promise Bilbo and his family their services for generations to come. Mind, they weren't howling.

Try this riddle. It is Middle-earth related.

My way has seen many
a queer and wary passing
From East to West
Carefree strides and
Streaks that rumble;
Tentative recollections and
Gloomy trepidations
What am I?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Drifa and @Chrysophylax Dives
I'm going all in here, I'm Going with Falco Chubb-Baggins... Hear me out!

• first Chubb-Baggins to be born

• he "hatched" because his name means "falcon"

• "then there was one other" when he got married (to a wife that remains unnamed) they had a daughter named Poppy

• As Poppy's mother was unnamed, Poppy was technically the second Chubb-Baggins to exist/be born

• Poppies are often worn as a "symbolic red batch (or badge/button)

• As Poppy married, her sirname changed, making Falco the first and the last "Chubb-Baggins!

Dah! If I'm not right with all of this, I guess I'll just have to go and farm some taters!

Apologies for interrupting the present riddle - on which i am, of course, clueless - i just want to tie a loose end and declare once and for all that my fan-fiction of the adventures of Adamanta Chubb and the misadventure of her son Albusbalbus Chubb, are not a challenge to the answer supplied here.

Rather, the whole line of descent is clarified, down to the Folly of Albus (as told in my story). This is a Hobbit line begotten in original error (mine) and culminating in catastrophic error (the Tower on the Hill)! But such is the magic of the generations of our history - because between the error of Albus Chubb concerning stairs, and my own error reading Drifa's riddle, the Hobbit Guide to Stairs was composed.

Edit. So in fact the father of Albus Chubb, the Bag-end Gardener who he never knew, was a Baggins, making Albusbalbus Chubb a second (or third or fourth, as you count) Chubb-Baggins!

Also, while i have been full of praise for and a feeling of enormous gratitude to the Hobbit for answering this riddle, now that it is answered - it is a master class of riddling! The craft of the Dwarf that the answer of the Hobbit reveals is awesome, tracing before our eyes all the ambiguities of identity and suggestions of background Hobbit-hole histories packed into 'Mrs Bungo Baggins, one of the three remarkable Took daughters.' I'm going to the Admin points fairy subsection of this site - but not immediately, because when i do i want to have the craft of this riddle clear in my head.

Drifa! It was an amazing riddle. Thank you.

Back to the new riddle!

[Periantar]

I was thinking more of the dwarves being long-winded, which would require the breath of life to promise Bilbo and his family their services for generations to come. Mind, they weren't howling.

Try this riddle. It is Middle-earth related.

My way has seen many
a queer and wary passing
From East to West
Carefree strides and
Streaks that rumble;
Tentative recollections and
Gloomy trepidations
What am I?

I'm itching to just jump right in the deep end here, and guess that this is the Misty Mountains, which run North-South, and so their passes go East-West. Passes that is, which most people would take warily and with trepidation. Of course, there are many East-West passes and roads, but I hear tell that the streaks of lightning, whose thunder rumbles in Misty Mountains are far beyond any other.

Anyhow, probably way off here; I'm sure there are so many possibilities.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

No! You are on the right track, and actually only because of it do i believe that I see what it is:

There were, however, dwarves on the road in unusual numbers. The ancient East–West Road ran through the Shire to its end at the Grey Havens, and dwarves had always used it on their way to their mines in the Blue Mountains. They were the hobbits’ chief source of news from distant parts – if they wanted any: as a rule dwarves said little and hobbits asked no more. But now Frodo often met strange dwarves of far countries, seeking refuge in the West. They were troubled, and some spoke in whispers of the Enemy and of the Land of Mordor.

[Drífa]

Good guesses, but not what I am looking for. Try again for a cookie!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Gah! i was so certain i was right.

[Drífa]

Thank you for all your kind words regarding the Chubb-Baggins riddle @Chrysophylax Dives. I have found an inconsistency in it, and I apologize. It was not Falco Chubb-Baggins who was the last. It was Poppy Chubb-Baggins, so it seems. She married Filibert Bolger. But that would mean Falco had died before Poppy married, I would assume. Falco lived to the age of ninety-six and died two years before Bilbo's party. Poppy attended Bilbo's party and would have been around 57 (a typical age for Hobbits to marry, or did she marry late?) and 55 when Falco died.

I keep going back to @Periantar's deductions and the one line: As Poppy married, her surname changed, making Falco the first and the last "Chubb-Baggins!
I never realized that Falco may have died before Poppy married.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Falco lived to the age of ninety-six and died two years before Bilbo's party. Poppy attended Bilbo's party and would have been around 57 (a typical age for Hobbits to marry, or did she marry late?) and 55 when Falco died.

So if i may clarify? Poppy was unmarried and so a Chubb-Baggins on the day of the long-expected party? And she was 55 when Falco her father died. But it is not known if Falco died before or after the party? Is that the basic issue?

[Drífa]

I believe Falco Chubb-Baggins died ( Poppy would have been 55 years old at his death and not married yet) before Poppy Chubb-Baggins married Filibert Bolger. This would make Poppy the last Chubb-Baggins and Falco the first Chubb-Baggins.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

May I ask for your sources? Not that i am doubting anything you say, of course. Just maybe some more information might be dug up on this vital question. Seeing there is nothing else going on in the plaza atm (at least that i am involved in, my Guide being done for the time being) i propose a proper and thorough source investigation of the Chubb-Bagginses in a quest to decide if, according to the authorities, your riddle counts as a proper riddle. Obviously, it is a proper riddle compared with the 'what have i got in my pocket?' kind, but i think we must have all the facts laid out carefully before us before we can evaluate whether the first and the last Chubb-Baggins is in fact the greatest riddle ever posed on the plaza.

[Drífa]

In TROTK Appendix C Family Trees:

...Most of them are either guests at Bilbo's Farewell Party, or their direct ancestors. The guests at the Party are underlined.

Falco Chubb-Baggins
1303 - 1399
Poppy
1344
= Filibert Bolger

Clearly, Poppy was married at the time of the Party and no longer a Chubb-Baggins. My husband has accused me before of not reading all the information carefully. My bad.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Clearly, Poppy was married at the time of the Party and no longer a Chubb-Baggins. My husband has accused me before of not reading all the information carefully. My bad.

My dear Dwarf, it is an easy enough mistake, of the kind that happens to all of us, and your honesty says all one needs to know as to your impeccable character. On the domestic situation that you report, the accusation is a serious one, and i am afraid to say that, given how you present things above, 'accuse' would be a euphemism - 'observed' would be the correct word. But don't worry! I have some experience with such situations.

The first step is to shift the charge from actual observation to the wished for accusation. This is all about framing. Fudge a little when you present the evidence, hint at obscure HoMe sources, suggest unpublished letters recorded in auction room houses (there are many, and much of their contents have been noted by hard core Hobbits). It does not require much - just introduce a sliver of reasonable doubt so that the accusation appears as if it still needs to be proved.

This should buy a little time. In the meanwhile I will ask around. I have a friend who has a friend, who has a cousin who has a friend who is a Hobbit lawyer who once represented some of the Hobbit Burglar Brigade (the most hardcore of the mushroom artists - in and out of the lockholes!) and has much experience as counsel for old school Lorists engaged in forum flame wars. If we can get her aid, I reckon we can then work the next stage and turn accusation into acquital. Remember, you are innocent until found guilty, and that will not happen if we can just sow some reasonable doubt as to the Chubb-Baggins genealogy.

In the meanwhile, if you are arrested here are some things to remember: give name, address, and date of birth and then to all further questions say 'no comment'. (If you do not give them these they will only hold you for longer.) Don't let them take your fingerprints - make them apply for a warrant (this sometimes is refused, especially if the evidence is flimsy). You are entitled to suitable food - you might not get it, but keep on asking. Look bored but stay polite. Make a note of the number of the arresting officer and anyone who treats you badly.

Good luck!

[Fuin Elda]

I was thinking more of the dwarves being long-winded, which would require the breath of life to promise Bilbo and his family their services for generations to come. Mind, they weren't howling.

Try this riddle. It is Middle-earth related.

My way has seen many
a queer and wary passing
From East to West
Carefree strides and
Streaks that rumble;
Tentative recollections and
Gloomy trepidations
What am I?

Admittedly I am probably further from the mark but I had a thought an I shall try it

the road to Woodhall

Generally east to west
This is where the fox sees the hobbits and thinks it queer (and a few other animals once the fire dies down)
They aren't worried yet about any danger yet and singing
Tentative recollection - Sam states if he remembers rightly>>>
Gloomy trepidations -Frodo bemoaning the sale of his feather beds to Sackville baggins and that he should have driven to his new home isntead of walked.

[Drífa]

That is so close, Fuin. I gasped when I read it. But it is not the answer I am looking for. The clues in this riddle are meandering but all in the same location. The answer is not found in just one paragraph.


@Chrysophylax Dives Thanks!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

My way has seen many
a queer and wary passing
From East to West
Carefree strides and
Streaks that rumble;
Tentative recollections and
Gloomy trepidations
What am I?

I feel I am slowly working my way back into 'Drifa-mind', which i had not properly entered since i was last here. The trick, if i recall, is to spot a textual reference and work it from there. But I have not spotted a solid reference yet.

Here is what i am stuck on. A road is passed in both directions, but the passing here is only in one direction, namely East to West. So is this some reference to the Sun? And if not, what? I am thinking out loud but encourage any passing admins to apply their brains (always better to apply them than supply them, eh?)

[Androthelm]

Popping riddle-thread to riddle-thread -- could it be the East Road as described in The Hobbit, as the rain begins to pour and Bilbo thinks of his warm Hobbit-hole far away? I can't claim to be as sharp on the line-by-line textuals as Chrys, but that's what came to me!

[Drífa]

No. You have gone too far; passed the Forsaken Inn. Turn around.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Drifa, i had a flash of inspiration - on the East-West thing - and was certain i had it. But i cannot fix up any of the textual clues. So i think not, but will guess anyway:

... they turned from the sight and went down into the hollow circle. In the midst of it there stood a single stone, standing tall under the sun above, and at this hour casting no shadow. It was shapeless and yet significant: like a landmark, or a guarding finger, or more like a warning.

Are you this standing stone?

[Drífa]

You are still going the wrong way. Turn around. You must go back through the Old Forest, old chap!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Sigh. OK, back to the map.
I do like this two riddles going thing - allows humility and vengance to dance together. :)

[Chrysophylax Dives]

O! You are the Brandywine River.

[Drífa]

No I am not the Brandywine River. Please do try again.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Argh.
Honestly, i find it fascinating to observe myself in a state of certainty that turns out to be unfounded.

[Periantar]

OK @Drifa and @Chrysophylax Dives , I have been absent a long while (hobbit-nap), and am now quite confused, did I guess the Poppy Bolger one correctly? I think I did, as it was the intended answer...

As for Drifa's latest, since the Old forest has been suggested as a clue, I might hazard a guess at the Withywindle - but I'm going solely on the "East to West" clue, so I'm probably wasting a lot of people's time.

At least I'm back in the game, I had to make a start somewhere...

[Chrysophylax Dives]

OK @Drifa and @Chrysophylax Dives , I have been absent a long while (hobbit-nap), and am now quite confused, did I guess the Poppy Bolger one correctly? I think I did, as it was the intended answer...

As for Drifa's latest, since the Old forest has been suggested as a clue, I might hazard a guess at the Withywindle - but I'm going solely on the "East to West" clue, so I'm probably wasting a lot of people's time.

At least I'm back in the game, I had to make a start somewhere...

i am extremely glad to see you, young Hobbit. You are back in the game, the Withywindle as the source of all the queerness sound spot on, and as to your question - i am so glad you asked! rather than disrupt riddle-play further, i will try to explain the problem on a Lore post (why i ever thought the admins could handle this i will never know - we shall take it to the Lore Goose!). Welcome back!

[Drífa]

Welcome back, @Periantar! Sorry, lad, you have to go more west.

[Arnyn]

My way has seen many
a queer and wary passing
From East to West

The Grey Havens?

Many Elves have gone through Lindon to go from the East, ME, into the West, Aman. The Elves departing are often wary of life / war in Middle-Earth? Streaks that rumble might refer to the siege to the Havens in the Second Age?

[Drífa]

You are too far West, Arnyn! The Brandywine and the Withywindle are closer to the mark.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Arnyn, I see what you are doing with the East-West --> Havens. you getting the hang of it

Drifa,hold your horses... i just posted: 'are you the road from Bag-end to Woodhall?' but given that Fuin did not get it with 'the road to Woodhall' that cannot be right. But you are in the text just here... i will be back.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

If we get to the other side of this hill, we shall find a spot that is sheltered and snug enough, sir. There is a dry fir-wood just ahead, if I remember rightly.

You are that spot, sheltered and snug in a dry fir-wood.