The Michel Delving Mathom-House (OOC)

[The Good Hunter]

You are far too generous in your praise, @Chrysophylax Dives. Whilst I do love fin-de-siecle literature, especially the proto-horror that came from it, I would never call myself a source of unexpected riches. My love of the era came from reading Lovecraft in college and getting hooked. It was not until post college that I really dived into his influences and found authors like Arthur Machen and Algernon Blackwood (the two best writers of the period within any genre in my opinion). It was only in the last few years for me, since the pandemic really, that I got into M.R. James and I am kicking myself for taking so long. James' style is so matter-of-fact but so precise and his storytelling is engaging. For my money, Warning to the Curious is his best work, though Count Magnus and Oh, Whistle, and I'll Come to You, My Lad are right behind it.

It's sad that so many authors of the period have fallen out of favor with modern audiences. Given the state of "literature" I think it's vital we bring them back with critical studies and annotations. I could go on a tirade here so I'll stop short and say "MOAR FIN-DE-SIECLE!"

I do believe you'll enjoy "Novel of the Black Seal" even though it's a part of a wider novel it stands perfectly well on its own. Machen's view of fairies and 'little people' is so vastly different from Tolkien that it's refreshing to go to that well every once in a while and be reminded that sometimes, darker is better.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

I'll try to turn down the praise. No good getting a butter allergy.

I also just deleted a massively long reply about the period. It does speak to me deeply, and I was trying to pinpoint some of the reasons. But it became too long and unfocused. I think there is something about the combination of modernity and tradition that I like - they are modern in their thinking, but they are still in touch with a past that has for us vanished. But also a pre-WWI innocence. Recently, I've become much more aware of the dark, bitter, mourning mood of Tolkien, and to me it speaks of what the war did to a generation. Back in 1900 people had genuine faith in progress. And they were excited about exploring all these unchartered regions of the imagination.

Did you ever read any Robert Graves? I am not sure how much I like him. But he is another who captures a spirit of the time - this combination of erudition, imagination, and some wild ideas. 'Goodbye to All That', his autobiography, gives an idea of the generation who returned from the trenches. Graves is also fascinating on women - one of the forerunners of the odd tendency to swap (rather than abolish or reinvent) gender relations, with the history of western civilization now a male conspiracy that deprived the goddess of her rightful sovereignty over the Earth. (Hints of all that in some curious plaza posts of the last while.)

Yeah, I also have a thing with historical fiction. Graves does some good ones. Mary Renault is the absolute best. I like Rosemary Sutcliff too, though she wrote for children (never a problem for me, I still read the likes of Treasure Island with pleasure).

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Fell asleep before reading any of 'The Novel of the Black Seal', so nothing to report yet on that. But some vague thoughts on the fairy-dust experiment.

If Giqhoqha were amenable, I reckon we could offer volunteers a sweet deal - free board and lodging at the Black Star and Sand Spa for when they are not online. When a member is online, they are - naturally - free to go where they wish on the plaza. But when offline they get R&R in a Mordor cell, and we perform our experiments.

By experiments of course I mean nothing more sinister than observing the volunteers whilst NFP requests are submitted and fairy-dust sprinkled. We must make notes of what we observe if this is to be proper science! Once we have some broad generalizations - Dwarves snore more loudly, Hobbits blush, or what-have-you - we could vary the conditions - moving the chains or switching the diet and such.

Anyone else with a passion for knowledge on this kind of thing, do please feel free to chip in with suggestions.

@Dungeon Delver, Aiks

[The Good Hunter]

Did you ever read any Robert Graves? I am not sure how much I like him. But he is another who captures a spirit of the time - this combination of erudition, imagination, and some wild ideas. 'Goodbye to All That', his autobiography, gives an idea of the generation who returned from the trenches. Graves is also fascinating on women - one of the forerunners of the odd tendency to swap (rather than abolish or reinvent) gender relations, with the history of western civilization now a male conspiracy that deprived the goddess of her rightful sovereignty over the Earth. (Hints of all that in some curious plaza posts of the last while.)

I read "Goodby to All That" in a class at uni in the halcyon days of 2006. I was impressed by his stark, frill-less style, it had a poetry all it's own. I've been meaning to find and read his "White Goddess" but somehow have not found the time for it. If we're gonna do some serious study of fin-de-siecle writing though, I need to get on it.

If Giqhoqha were amenable, I reckon we could offer volunteers a sweet deal - free board and lodging at the Black Star and Sand Spa for when they are not online. When a member is online, they are - naturally - free to go where they wish on the plaza. But when offline they get R&R in a Mordor cell, and we perform our experiments.

By experiments of course I mean nothing more sinister than observing the volunteers whilst NFP requests are submitted and fairy-dust sprinkled. We must make notes of what we observe if this is to be proper science! Once we have some broad generalizations - Dwarves snore more loudly, Hobbits blush, or what-have-you - we could vary the conditions - moving the chains or switching the diet and such.

Anyone else with a passion for knowledge on this kind of thing, do please feel free to chip in with suggestions.

I will freely admit here, I'm a bit flummoxed as to the plan here. Are we recruiting people to come by Mordor then "experimenting" on them? or coming with our own test subjects to "Dr. Moreau"?

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: I don't know what you are asking still. When you want to get this mission about the letter on the road? As your IC character dragon you can fly even the letter to Mordor. But who is writing it? A dragon can not do that? Is he like Smaug? Dragons are creatures of evil in the Tolkien Legendarium? I thought Chrysophylax was your inlog identity on the Plaza website, where I address you Chrys with? I never knew there was a dragon character hidden behind it. If so, it is cool though.

I have though a question for you Chrys: have you ever really roleplayed with elves, dwarves, orcs, ents or other creatures before? And taken them into adventures, battles, love relationships, balls etc? Imagined and written everything 'in character'? I hope you don't feel offended by it, but I am asking myself this for a while now. There you mentioned the confusing element between "out of character" and "in character/roleplay"?

I don't know what kind of position I have to take in all the blurring discussions about books I have never heard off?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

My dear Aiks and Dungeon Delver,
Welcome to my world, which I had thought was also yours. There is no plan, and I'm up for anything. But I'm especially up for any actual plan in which I can send other people into Mordor. My own personal interest here is keeping in good stead with the powers that be in the nameless land, without if possible actually putting a toe inside.

I do have a letter, one letter. It is just a reply to a post. I wish to have someone else deliver this reply because if I do so I have to enter Mordor. I do appreciate the enticements, and am actually reconsidering my no-go policy - but this particular letter I would rather someone else deliver, if possible.

Beyond someone else deliving my letter - I could not care less and will go with anything, well, almost.

***********
But the rude reality of life is that atm I am fast approaching a holiday space. The sad fact is that we don't have the money to go away, and there is nowhere in the vicinity exactly enticing as a tourist attraction. In any case, what i really need a holiday from is my children! Especially the smallest two. So I have arranged for a week where I remain in my own home but am absolved from all duties and free to treat the place like a hotel. That is the theory. In return I have promised to put away the computer for the duration - hence the stocking up on kindle reading. I have not read a good book since Christmas - that was a collected volume of M.L.R. James ghost stories.

James was a head of Eton school and provost of a Cambridge college, and friends with the Disney Professor of Classical Archeology, William Ridgeway. Ridgeway has a cameo (as Disney) early in (I think) the O Whistle story. Ridgeway blew me away when I read his 1900 volume on ancient Greece - I simply never encountered such pure bigotry and racism. He just unveiled it all, put it neat as a whistle, and revelled in it. He shows how the race and gender ideas coincide - northern virtue is all about the chaste woman, whose honour the rugged barbarian male will defend with his life. Not everyone in Cambridge at that time was like that, to be sure. But the East Anglian Fens are a bleak place to gaze from an ivory tower.

Meanwhile, Graves came out of Oxford, like Tolkien and Mary Renault and many others who, well, basically appear fairly wholesome in comparison with the East Anglian folk. Whatever prejudices and problematic values and ideas one can discern in Tolkien, they pale in comparison with the likes of Ridgeway.

But Graves went his own way. Tolkien insisted on finishing his degree at Oxford before enlisting, while Graves was one who enlisted and only went up to Oxford after the war. That rather put him in a different world to the usual undergraduate, and he went his own way as an independent scholar after that, ending up living an alternative life in the Spanish island of Majorca. Reading his historical novels, like I Claudius, he appears lucidly sane. And he appeared sufficiently so to get the prestigous and relatively lucrative job of editing the two volume Penguin edition of the Greek Myths. But that edition is deemed insane by professional Classicists today.

Graves' insanity comes out to the full (imo) in The White Goddess. I have a copy of this book in my house and every once in a while when a certain mood takes me, open it up. It is incomprehensible. Graves discovered the true poetic tradition. Once this tradition is discovered it proves the key to all myths and legends. The tradition was known to the druids and unfolded through this and that Celtic myth. Everything is about the goddess.

Graves was not the first literary Englishman to rip to shreds the hypocricy of the social norms and culture that he was born into. That might be Samuel Butler. But Graves woke up to the lie and the sham as he served on the front in World War One, and what he woke to seems to have been a binary gender division such that everything that he hated was made by men. Therefore, women are the solution.

It is not exactly an insane inference. Actually, seems to me there is a lot going for it. But with Graves one sees the idea become insane - the key to history is an original, primitive matriarchy (a key that allows him to interpet all Greek myths!) and his personal solution is to retreat into his own little patch of garden and compose true poetry as an act of worship of the white goddess.

Have to see how Conan the Barbarian might speak to the White Goddess.

*****
I'm not holidaying yet - too many loose ends. But will be soon. If you hit on a plan that hangs together, even remotely, you may count me in.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: That's nice, a vacation. Enjoy it. You are the GM in this mission of yours to have a letter delivered to a spa in Mordor, so the planning in your hands. As the other participants we can advice on how it can happen, but not take over your GM rights. Perhaps Frost have some ideas, for I am kinda lost to tackle it at all?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Well, when i get back from holiday I will GM as required. And if there are any other plans on the table we can do them too. Really and truly, fairy-dust sprinkling is off the table for fear of antagonizing delicate relations with the NFP. And probably scientific experiments on plaza members in Mordor is a no go too, for not unrelated reasons.

I'm not about to disappear. Will let you know before hand.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: What are you really talking about? I have no clue what you are constant referring to. I don't follow anything from the Undertowers project, what is a big mystery to me as well. But I leave at this and don't go further in on the matter. I think Frost will be a better participant than me and comclude the letter to Mordor. Anyone can ask tribute if they want? Only admins get no points due to the positions they have. This has always been so. I'll see you when you're back from vacation.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Chrys: What are you really talking about?

Aiks, I wish I knew. I could try to answer if you were more specific. But maybe you should wait till I have had a holiday! I said somewhere that I have not had one for 3 years, but actually it is more like 5 years!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Dungeon Delver, we should probably find a better place to talk about fin-de-siecle literature. But this one I'm happy to keep below the radar here. If you do look at Graves' White Goddess I'd be very curious what you make of it. For myself, I find men who worship the goddess a bit disturbing - though I accept that I am generalizing and possibly a tad unfair. My attitude is frozen from one night around 3 decades ago, when a friend had recruited me to help him clear a house of which the sole occupant had just died. The house was a large respectable middle-class house in South London and the man who had lived in it had been a respectable scientist working at a London university. But in his spare time he had developed his own religion, evidence of which was all around the house in the form of large canvas paintings of valkyries, each in different states of undress and erotic pose. On inquiry, I was told that the scientist had worked out a new religion that worshipped women. So I assume the valkyrie were objects of veneration. Along with an enormous amount of other junk, the scientist also had a massive collection of porno mags, dating back to the 1950s (maybe the 1960s? I cannot remember so good), which seemed to me connected to the valkyries on the wall. Maybe that connection was unwarranted? Looking back I do feel that I was too young, innocent, and closed-minded back then and that I should perhaps have made more of an effort to keep an open mind. But that house remains imprinted in my head as an image of a cracked mind, and I found what seeped out of the cracks a bit disturbing.

That house indirectly put me off Robert Graves.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

And with that strange memory of that cracked house in South London, I'm signing off for a short holiday. Have fun, and talk to you both soon.
xxx

[The Good Hunter]

Woah, lots to catch up on apparently. Firstly, Aik, I can understand where the confusion is coming from, even though I'm still game to try this experiment out, I'll honestly say I'm not sure where and how I'm going to do it, much like driving a car blindfolded and backwards. It's a highly experimental, plaza-meta, fourth wall leaning adventure that even I'm apprehensive about being able to pull off, no shame in backing out. I do hope you read my attempt at this kind of fiction though and find it at least mildly entertaining.
Secondly, @Chrysophylax Dives, have a good "vacation" and when you get back we can do a little more discussing of ideas. I have a few that might help kickstart the whole. The important thing, I think, is not to take any of this seriously in the least, let's get hyperreality with this. Additionally, I agree we should find a better place to discuss our fin-de-siecle literature love, perhaps I'll open up a thread in Gondolin and we can toss some recommendations (and condemnations) back and forth.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Frost: Alas it is so fuzzy I don't understand it, but I trust your reading of it. Between IC and OOC there is always a clear distinction to me, not amalgation. Foo was never my thing either, for the same reasons. I wish it could be as with Quennar and Keijo in Adab Gelir, little planning and then it runs by itself, serious style RP. I am at ease in that. I can't detect any mildly entertaining in all of this discussion, but if you have, that is nice.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@The Good Hunter, as might be apparent, my holiday came to nothing. So my Conan reading has not even begun. But I am at least deep in the Black Seal. It is cracking good stuff! Apart from anything else, I am sure M.L.R. James lifted at least one and maybe two ghost stories out of it. But also it just has all the stuff I've been banging on about with other authors. The fairy-folk are a bit reminscent of John Buchan's aborigines (the pre-Celtic natives) while I just noted a mention of Gypsie heiroglyphs, which come out of the discovery of Patterer-marks in the 1850s that I was going on about on the Speak Egg! thread. Also all these mentions of Atlantis. Tolkien seems to me to have explored all these strange notions of those days. I'll post my thoughts more fully on the Pre-Tolkien Fantasists post when I'm finished.

Also, I am considering a special Guide to Stairs post dedicated to bears. This was because I was reading the first Winnie-the-Pooh story to my 5-year-old and was delighted with the illustration and wish to make use of it. But then I worried that bears are really your thing, so I thought I had better check with you if you would mind?

[The Good Hunter]

@Chrysophylax Dives, worry not my lad, I understand the frustrations of "Me Time" cut short. I am glad you're finding "Black Seal" entertaining! Given that Buchan (I'm assuming we're speaking of the author/politician) and Machen were writing around the same time I would be shocked if there was not some cross pollination of influences, similarly with good ole Monty Rhodes, an amazing atmosphere builder. I think the "little people" craze was in the zeitgeist, Tolkien just took it in much more benign and friendly direction than many of his peers. One of these days I'd love to try and write an essay comparing the works of Machen and Tolkien and see what I come up with.

And as far as a post about bears goes, by all means! Whilst I can claim the title of "Number One Bear Fan" on the plaza I hardly hold any sort of monopoly over them. They, both ecologically and mythopoeically, belong to everyone.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Ahh. I want to say Dungeon Deliver, the name that pointed me to the Black Seal, but must mention @The Good Hunter - the Black Seal is a feast. I finished last night, and could post for hours but I fear I would bore the pants off you, and also I am rather behind in my paid work. Tbh, the story is a bit of a splodge in my head, and I will read over it again - but only after I get hold of the other two (there are three in this series, right?)

Briefly, there are various 19th-century revolutions of thought that come together around 1900 to give us the imaginative worlds of little fairy people that Buchan and Machen - and later Tolkien - are exploring. You were quite right when you said somewhere that Machen gives us a totally other side of Elves and Hobbits than does Tolkien. But it seems to me that Machen comes closer than any other author I have read to giving us the same raw elements that Tolkien was playing with and reworking.

In terms of wider zeitgeist, Evolution is in the mix, but is not so big a thing as people think. Rather, the idea of vast evolutionary time sort of merges with a more general being awed by Time, and the really crucial thing in the late 19th century was the discovery of pre-history, when the bottom fell out of History. In 1866 it was polite scholarly consensus that humans had inhabited the British Isles for maybe a couple of centuries before the Romans turned up. By 1877 it was polite scholarly orthodoxy that before the Celts came to the British Isles an aboriginal race had dwelled here - distinguished from the first 'race' of intruders by their long skulls and long barrows (the Celts were identified as a round-skulled and round-barrowed race of intruders, who gradually mingle with the aborigines). Polite scholars became obsessed with tracing blood lines amongst the racial mingling of history (Tolkien presumes that the present inhabitants of the British Isles are a mix of all intruding races, including the aborigins - whose language is almost utterly lost to us.)

Throw in the mix the forgotten folklore traditions (which always have at their root the Christian idea of Fairies as either children of Cain or children of fallen angels - or a mix), and wider zeitgeist stories like 'Dr Jeckl and Mr Hyde', and then - only with Machen and Tolkien that I so far know of - an Atlantis fascination...

I warble and should work. I enjoyed the story, but am also quite excited to have discovered it. Machen seems basically to be giving the Nodens reading of the fairies.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

PS. Good on the Bears! Maybe a weekend post.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@The Good Hunter, fyi the Undertowers Librarian has come round to the importance of encouraging the folk of Mordor to make use of the Elostirion Library. (This series of posts). I'm not sure that any Mordor folk would actually wish to use the Library, but I thought we could use this as cover for nefarious business. If I think of any nefarious business to conduct I will send another letter, and am of course open to proposals from your end.

[The Good Hunter]

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: Oh aye? I know Saranna is an elf from Imladris. There are constant OOC posts in the first character (I or you and not in Italics) and IC character posts (third character posts, he or she or it). It doesn't look as full IC thread.

Talking cats don't exist in ME. They have a certain awareness, but can only say Miauw. I'll wait for Saranna's reply, the question was addressed to her.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Aiks

Also, I have not yet mastered all these plaza rules. I still have trouble working out if RP is Role Playing or Real Life.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: RP is always roleplay, never your real life person. Also called IC - in character. I had your troubles too in the deep past before I understood them. And I helped countless others in the Newbie House when they were around in the kingdoms in the haydays. If you want some guidances, I am happy to help out, if you like?

Little bit of info from the very old days, but real handy:

What is FAQ, RP, RPG, GM, IC, OOC, glomp, *g*, bump, or ickle?
FAQ ~ Frequently Asked Questions
RPG ~ A roleplaying adventure or story with a plot (as opposed to loose roleplaying where one has a setting or theme, like "feasthall" or "hunting" but no planned events, episodes, foes to fight or problems to solve.)
GM ~ Person in charge of a RPG who plans and steers the plot and referees the action
IC ~ In character, writing from the point of view of your Middle-earth character
OOC ~ Out of character, speaking as you, the player
glomp ~ a friendly tackle-hug
*g* ~ shorthand for "giggles" or "grins"
ickle ~ cute word for "little"

How do I roleplay?
Roleplaying is playing make-believe. You create a character, and then write what your character says, does, and thinks!

It was written long ago by Tinw, but still online the website. So some roleplaying tips from Tinw.

Hehe on the cat meme, it is funny. Freddy's cat. Poor creature when it is pulled at tail.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Thank you very much, Aiks. The link seems useful. I will read and learn!

Edit. Aiks - thanks again! I have now edited the OP on the Adamanta Chubb Librarian thread. :)

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Aiks & @The Good Hunter, a heads up. The link that Aiks provided was very helpful. Thing is, I never looked beyond Lore on the plaza for an age, and then I only stepped into the riddles. So actually, the Halls of Injustice is about my only experience of role playing. Reading the old plaza page that Aiks sent me to, some cogs turned in my head and the OPs of all these kingdom posts suddenly made a bit more sense.

So first of all, Aiks do you mind looking at the revised OP that I did on the Adamanta Chubb Librarian thread?

Now that I finally have a sense of how this works many more wheels and cogs are turning in my head. Basically, my desire is to realize the map of Middle-earth as traced in A Guide to Stairs within various plaza threads. The kind of thing I have in mind is setting up Palantir-connection between Undertowers and Mordor and then ensaring plaza members in other kingdoms by planting Palantiri that will be discovered and - voluntarily - looked into (Pippin style). But that is just off the top of my head. There are many avenues to explore. In any case, this is a long term vision. I'm not going to attempt anything like this until I have a little more experience of RP.

In the meanwhile, I'm considering a huorn-farm thread in which plaza members are invited to attempt to break in to the farm and steal eggs - but it is very dangerous...

I'm also attempting to end as many feuds that I am involved in as possible because the active member base is so small that each feud has substantial cost on the chance of getting the numbers to get a game going.

So this is the vague direction I am heading in...

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: I am glad it worked for you. It was once one of those pages used by (new) writers to get the hang on how the Opening Post among worked or operated. I got to say you picked up real fast. The OP of the Chubb Library is clear and understanding and tells exact what to expect, with a flair of 'drama from the dragon' that should bring a laugh forth and a smile on the face, if you get my drift. It works certainly for me. I think you have done well.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Talking cats don't exist in ME.

Thank you on the on the OP!

As for talking cats - Tevildo

[The Good Hunter]

I'm quite intrigued to see what develops from this. If it helps, I always envisioned a library in Minas Morgul, take that as you will

[Chrysophylax Dives]

It will take a while. I am only on the point of introducing a first Palantir. But Minas Morgul certainly works. I have this sense that the 3 Elf-towers of the Westmarch line up with the 3 towers of Mordor - Minas Morgul, Cirith Ungol, and the Dark Tower. Frodo dreams of what seems to be the white Elf-tower in the house at Crickhollow, but at the crossroads before Minas Morgul the dream replays as nightmare as he has to fight the desire to run up to the white-walled city. So yeah, Minas Morgul could be twinned with Elostirion and eventually we could have Librarian conventions by Seeing Stone.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Aiks - many thanks for your pointers! I feel I am only now starting to get my head around how all this below-Lore stuff works. So thank you - and everyone - also for your patience on this thread, as I slowly grapple with the niceties of OOC.

Adamanta Chubb Librarian Thread

This post reports the current state of play on the Adamanta Chubb Librarian Thread, and is specially for the attention of the Librarian, @Saranna. Resident cats and potential visitors on the horizon at present: Aiks, @Arnyn, @The Good Hunter.

Current schedule:

(1) negotiations under way with Mordor, which hopefully will see some educational tourism to Undertowers in the not too distant future. The Librarian has expressed a readiness to allow parties of Goblins to visit the Library and receive instructions about Books.

(2) negotiations under way with Ranger, Arnyn, for a tower visit and pinkie shake. The Library awaits a visit from the Ranger, or a reply discussing surrender of weapons before ascent to the front door of the Library.

Possible expansion of (2): my own feuds at present extend also to the Dwarves and one feathered Elf. Possibly they could be called upon to parley? As the pair have not a single butter knife between them it seems futile, but I throw out the suggestion.

Future plans: the drama is building to the big reveal of what the dragon is going to produce from the bag. But that is not until after the pinkie-shake with the Ranger, and maybe not even then - I am looking for the ideal conditions, if possible. If and when we arrive, I will be in contact with Mordor regarding the Library donation that I have spoken of.

* * * * *

Mood setting: for those who are considering a visit to Elostirion may we offer this short educational clip of a tower-visit elsewhere to set the appropriate mood?

[Saranna]

Aiks, Chrys, everyone - OOC/IC was always a problem for me in the past and I still find myself looking back at something I've posted and realising I have committed Godmoding. RPG (sometimes known then as ARPY) was always a delight. Tinw was always a support, not my only one but I still miss her.
Cats - when I was Imladris Librarian I used the notion of parallel worlds, notably Discworld, to explain strange incursions into the Kingdom. In other words I claimed that some goblins had broken into the Library of Elrond by using 'L-Space' (Pratchett.) So on that basis, which was applauded then rather than challenged, I think we can allow that a talking cat has broken through into Undertowers.
I am desperate to know (IC) what on Middle-earth is in the bag!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

We need to set up a Fairbairn's Open House thread in Undertowers for visitors to stay in. If anyone would like to take on this role please go ahead and open a thread and become manager of our public house. Failing anyone stepping up, I will set it up myself in due course (mumble, mutter, mutter). Obviously, it would be better to have some fresh blood in Undertowers. Fortunately, I know of the ideal candidate.

@Fuin Elda. This one appears to have your name on it.

[Periantar]

Hi all, since this is OOC, I imagine it may be the place for this question, "What is with the Undertowers?"

It's not my question, of course; a friend of mine wanted to know. I've noticed... I mean, he's noticed a whole lot of "Undertowers" in the Shire, too many perhaps to count, and doesn't rightly get what they're all about. I'm sure if I... I mean, he took a little more time to read threads therein he'd be able to figure it out.

Also, back in the day - I am a hobbit of remarkable count of years, so I am indeed casting my mind way back to perhaps a decade before the "Sundering of Valinor" - there was, and I was a somewhat founding member of the Shire Defense Squad. I see that this is listed in the OP for this thread as a possible thing to bring back. If I should like to bring this back, Do I simply start a thready thing and write out an Opening Post with guidelined etc. or is there some due process through which one would go?

Cheers, and now... back into character...
*at that, the old hobbit simply dropped the microphone he'd been using, and with no further ado, vanished! He stepped down and vanished. There was a blinding flash of light, and those in the Mathom-House all blinked. When they opened their eyes Periantar was nowhere to be seen! Oh, no, there he was, walking out the door, quite visible - nope, don't know what that was all about.*

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Hi @Periantar,
On the magical request - I ended up delivering that letter myself and had forgotten about it. But now we have a voluneer perhaps I could write another letter? Give me a few days to work it out please!

On the Shire Defense Squad: I recknon you just make a new thread and spell out the new order on the OP. As the only active Hobbit these days, it seems a Hobbit Defense Squad would be just the thing to organize. Maybe pull some other Hobbits out of the wood work.

On Undertowers: the real thing is this, I am a Lorist at heart and Undertowers is at the center of my reading of LotR. I have concluded that the Stone in Elostirion in the 3rd Age is a hidden foundation of the narrative, a connection with Valinor, and that Tolkien carefully has the Stone taken back into the West and replaced by the Red Book of Westmarch in the 4th Age, so equating Stone with Book. Further, Tolkien indicates that Sam worked out the deal with the Stone in the Elf-tower, and so the Undertowers Hobbits are circled as being the only early readers of the Red Book that had the true tradition.

Obviously, I'll happily expand on that in a Lore post if requested. But over the last year I've discovered the virtues, as a Lorist, of creative writing. As in, it helps my thinking on the above to inhabit Undertowers in these plaza posts.

Early this year, however, my theoretical interest in Undertowers as a Lorist coincided with my utter disgust with the state of Lore on the plaza, which I felt had been abandoned by the administration. The Undertowers posts in the Shire served the purpose of: (a) allowing a new space for Lore discussion to free them from the crud and the mud of traditional Lore, and (b) annoying the administration, who I wished to nudge into taking responsibility for Lore. To the admin mind, a Lore post in the Shire is a monstrosity, and yet breaks no plaza DEI rules, making Undertowers an anarchist protest hitting the authorities where it hurts. But with the change of administration a few months ago I made peace with the admins, returned to posting in Lore, and have stopped with the Undertowers as an alternative Lore forum - though Lore remains crap.

[Periantar]

Ha! Love it, very hobbittish, I reckon, to go and defy the ruling classes by essentially, kicking back and reading a good book in a library..

I shall attempt to re-start the HDS (Hobbit Defense Squad as it was formerly known) with as I hinted, the groundbreaking new title, "Shire Defense Squad." I dug out a few OPs from the archives to give me a bit of a head start on setting it out.

Hopefully, as you say, a few hobbits here and there will come out of the woodwork - or the local pubs, inns and honey markets, which is where they're more likely to be.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Saranna, you and I have been squatting in the Shire pretty much all year. While you are an Elf and I am a dragon (or an Ent), don't you think we have a civic duty to sign up to the Shire Defence Squad organized by @Periantar?

Just possibly we might be able to use a Hobbit army to invade Mordor?

[Saranna]

@Periantar @Chrysophylax Dives

An interesting development; I have searched my resources to see whether any notable Librarians of the past have taken up arms, defensively or aggressively, for any reason. Sadly it seems that the majority of us have occupied many of the running years seated comfortably beside roaring fires and reading of other folk adventuring at war. I am not refusing to engage in necessary conflict, but must note that I would require substantial training. Also I have forgotten why we wanted to invade Mordor?

I await your ideas.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Saranna, you sent me off on a search for warrrior librarians. Alas, I found none. I had an image of the Library of Alexandria being defended by zealous librarians, but I guess they all ran away. A great shame!

On an invasion of Mordor. It is a very stupid idea of mine borne from boredom. There is nothing in Mordor worth the taking. It is a barren, empty, wasteland. The last Goblin has crossed the volcanic sea, or whatever it is that they do when they fade away into nothingness. So, let's forget that plan.

And to be honest, I don't see the Hobbit SDS invading anywhere for a while. But maybe that does not matter? Possibly we have been closeted away in our tower for too long and it is time to take some Shire strolls, exploring the pubs and inns of all Four Farthings.

I reckon we should sign up, if only for the fresh air and exercise.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Periantar, I reckon me and @Saranna will sign up. She is a civic minded Elf and knows the need for security details, but just requires a bit of prodding. At present we have been playing dragon and Elf, and tbh I have no real experience of RP. But I have worked out enough by now to understand that I should mayhap invent a Hobbit ID, which I begin to do now.

Proper Name: Fairbairn the Fat
Other details: I'll work them out when I see what I need for your form

Also, inspired by the SDS I think I am going to set up an OOC Guide to Stairs thread and then bug the admins to make it sticky and try and get some Shire interest in volume II of the Guide, which I am moving towards making happen. Possibly, one of the library staff who works on the Guide might pop over to give a talk on stairs to members of the SDS? Hobbits with arms should be prepared for all eventualities, including stairs.

[Saranna]

@Periantar and @Chrysophylax Dives

Excellent - consider me on board, although I shall be tied up with some urgent research (as Oxonmooters call drinking) fairly soon.

I shall do my best to keep in touch. Stairs, truly excellent!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Periantar and @Chrysophylax Dives

Excellent - consider me on board, although I shall be tied up with some urgent research (as Oxonmooters call drinking) fairly soon.

I shall do my best to keep in touch. Stairs, truly excellent!

Librarian, you need to sign up yourself. Sorry. But one must defend the Shire with one's own body, and we must have a signature if we are to defray expenses to any next of kin - or share of the profits, depending on how things go.

[Periantar]

Wonderful to hear from you both. I am afraid the dragon is quite correct though @Saranna you will need to get along to the SDS sign-ups Thread and ut your name on the dotted line as it were, we can't hardly be taking folks off on uncomfortable adventures if we don't have formal sign-off now, can we?

[Saranna]

@Periantar

Good gracious, I had forgotten all about sign-offs. Forgive me, my OCC self is on the frail side these days. Signature to follow.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@VelvetineZone, I love what you did on the magical request thread. A few things.

1. These OOC (out of character) threads pinned at the top of each region are a good way to get bearings with others.

2. Now you are a Hobbit, would you care to join the Shire Defence Squad organized by @Periantar?

3. The idea for a magical quest arose a while back because I wanted to pass on a message to a Goblin in Mordor but was worried that the letter would give offence so wanted someone else to take it for me. But in the end I walked right into the Mordor Post Office and delivered the letter myself.

4. Since then both you and Periantar have expressed interest in this quest, and so you really should be given a letter to take to Mordor. My brain is a tad boiled right now. Please give me a few days to work out what this new letter is about and what perils might await you on the road...

[VelvetineZone]

OK I've joined the Shire Squad but Tylwyth Took is a pesky faerie hobbit who adapted the pledge a bit.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Periantar, I am about to follow you and @VelvetineZone to the training ground. I cannot speak for VelvetineZone, but please note that my RP experience is confined to one long-running legal dispute in Mordor. In other words, please prod me here if I am breaking rules.

VelvetineZone, just so you know, they have this fetish about god-moding here. So far as I can make out, in practical terms it means that you cannot describe someone else's action. But if red lights start flashing, sirens wail, and a couple of admins knock on the door it likely means that someone has god-moded.

[VelvetineZone]

Thanks for the advice @Chrysophylax Dives and you're all most welcome to point things out if I traipse over any rules.

[VelvetineZone]

Is spotting another hobbit who posted before you god-moding? I was trying to politely link my burble to the previous post, but fear I have inadvertently god-moded. Apologies if so @Periantar, I can edit.

[Periantar]

@VelvetineZone not at all. If you had walked in and spotted me there and essentially described me as doing anything other than what I had already said I was doing - in this instance, sitting back with a pipe, waiting for my pint of ale to wear off - that would be a case of the aforementioned and much ballyhooed "god-moding."

For instance, you walk in and announce that "Hobold leaps from his slumber exclaiming profanities about spiders and pesky trolls, before tripping over his own fat curly feet and falling face first into a puddle of highly humiliating mud" <-------- God-moding.

I will add to my initial post in the Training Grounds, as I believe, for this to work, there needs to be some small degree of god-moding as in my post in the Grounds where I announced your initial reaction to me tripping you over unawares.

Essentially, when it comes to Roll Playing, should you ever tread on anyone's OOC toes - curly or otherwise - simply apologise, beg, "I'm new to this, have mercy on my soul!" and move on.

[VelvetineZone]

Ta!