Middle Earth Filming Location - New Zealand or England?

[Melahny_oftheWoods]

Hello all!

I believe it is well-known that some of Tolkien's inspiration for Middle-Earth comes from the beloved countryside and landscapes of England.

Now, I believe none can presume to know what Tolkien "would have thought" about anything, and only those who knew him best could accurately speculate. However, considering Tolkien's inspiration, I wonder if we can speculate whether Tolkien would be disappointed the adaptions were filmed in New Zealand rather than England? Or, if you don't want to speculate about what Tolkien might have thought, perhaps, weigh in on what you think about the choice of film location?

Of course, I do not mean to undercut the magnificence of New Zealand in anyway; the country and the locations filmed are beyond words. It's beautiful, sublime, fantastic. However, I do wonder why at least some of England wasn't used as a set location. Especially, since Tolkien wanted Middle Earth to be a modern mythology of England. The rolling hills of England would have made a beautiful Hobbiton. Although, the spot they found in NZ was perfect too!

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Melahny: Hello and thank for asking this interesting issue. The choice was once explained in the appendices of the Fellowship. It was Jackson's homeland and he knew what it had to offer. Most of it was also practicality and costsaving. Romantic and lovely the idea is parts could have been shot in Britain, money was a huge issue. Think of the beautiful costumes the actors wore, the props that were made for environments, the city models build? If Weta would have filmed in other world locations, perhaps much less the quality of the detailing in the movies could have been. Admitting the choice to film all in NZ was unusual at the time and many questions were asked about that. But it promoted also tourism, as friends of me visited NZ just because the movies were shot there.

I can't say if 'filming where' would be a huge matter to Tolkien. The respected professor isn't alive and speculating I don't like personally. I feel the directors chose well the film locations. They created an believing epos out of the adaptations that felt like middle earth and it was not New Zealand at all. Still if I watch the movies twenty years on I don't feel NZ around me on screen. And that is good.

[Boromir88]

Greetings @Melahny_oftheWoods. Interesting idea for a topic

I remember on the original plaza there were a few threads discussing NZ as the film's location. I can't find the old article, but it mostly talked about how the NZ climate is quite different from England's. It's hard for anyone to know, or say with certainty what Tolkien would have thought about Jackson's films, or the chosen location. We can take some guesses from letters he wrote, or interviews he did, but there are many authors who won't watch adaptations of their work. And there are others, like George RR Martin, who will be a scriptwriter for an episode.

Now the illustrators, Alan Lee and John Howe have made it well known that New Zealand was a great inspiration for their conceptual art. They were well known Tolkien illustrators prior to the films and chosen because of their respect and admiration for the source material. Their vision passed the muster of Tolkien fans prior to the films, I don't see why it would be different after them.

[Melahny_oftheWoods]

@Aikári Salmarinian, yes I see what you mean! I figured it was probably a lot to do with cost and practical reasons that they couldn't go abroad at all. Thinking of tourism... imagine if it had been filmed in England though... you could have tours of the film locations and of places that Tolkien lived, his grave, etc.

But yes, I would love to go to NZ, especially to see Hobbiton!

@Boromir88, true, the weather might have been less rainy, I suppose? And that's interesting about Howe and Lee... so they chose NZ before the films... do you know why they chose NZ, since they're Canadian and English?

[Boromir88]

@Melahny_oftheWoods, sorry for the confusion. I meant Howe and Lee were chosen by Jackson, because of their good standing as Tolkien artists prior to the films being made. They were well known and appreciated Tolkien artists before the films, and I don't see why that would have changed after the films. In fact the Tolkien Estate chose Alan Lee to illustrate Children of Hurin. Both of them, when designing the art for the films, admitted that they got a lot of inspiration from the NZ landscape. So, while I remember previous discussions that New Zealand really wasn't a representation of Middle-earth's landscape, it's in a way become ingrained thru public opinion to be "Middle-earth." I think part of that is because Howe's and Lee's art for the films and drawing inspiration from NZ landscape.

[Fuin Elda]

Honestly is it bad I'd be shocked if Howe's vision isn't a mix between Canada and New Zealand (I realize the question is England vs New Zealand) as no one has ever been able to convince me that the bases of the mallorn trees are not infact based around giant Canadian Western Red Cedars and the Misty Mountains seem as much the Rockies to me as they are NZ - I suppose this is something I see as a Canadian and as mentioned Howe is Canadian and grew up in Vancouver with both of those basically on his doorstep. (I almost want to go and ask this in his forums)

But on the filming - it comes down to budget and topography. The whole British Isle does not have the topography variety needed. It would have had to spread throughout Europe for that. So New Zealand is the perfect choice (Canada would be a close second but our size is too much)

[Androthelm]

@Fuin Elda I definitely see that -- the first time I saw the rockies in Colorado, I was struck by how much they looked like the Misties (especially in comparison to the Smokies, near where I grew up).

[Melahny_oftheWoods]

@Boromir88 Ahh, yes I see. I'm sure they both would have inspiration from their homelands as well as NZ once they started working with on the films.

As for the mountains, I've never seen them in person, sadly...I live in Canada but no where near mountains. Makes sense if he drew inspiration from the rockies though! I'd love to visit the west coast.

And true, UK doesn't have all the topography required. Ah, well. Maybe in the future someone will film some LOTR stuff in England. Perhaps there already are some fan films shot there?

[Fuin Elda]

@Melahny_oftheWoods I also absolutely do not live near them perhaps I live closer than you do though I'm in Manitoba near the Saskatchewan border... But I have seen the mountains at a distance having been to Alberta an Calgary many times.... I'm hoping to go do a BC trip and visit my friend who had moved to Victoria maybe do it as a car camping trip...

As for fan films in England maybe it's easier than I think of course when I've been to the UK I've been limited to the south and to me it often feels more like an angry anthill than a pastoral retreat. The next time I head out Iay have to travel in from Glasgow and leave from Gatwick even if I adore the absolute clockwork of Heathrow getting you through asap in terms of customs. I've debated on doing it as a walking trip and filming it ala Hobbit but I feel like I'll get arrested and it's possibly more likely to do something like that in Denmark,

[Melahny_oftheWoods]

@Fuin Elda Yeah, I live in southern Ontario so it's all farmland, beaches, and woods (which is beautiful!) but no mountains. I've never been out west but I want to! That sounds like so much fun, I hope you get to do that.

I've never been to England (never been out of Ontario really). I very much want to visit England...I watch a lot of period dramas filmed there, and there's so many locations I want to visit....Scotland Highlands, Ireland, Somerset. I watch "Escape to the Country" as I love seeing the English gardens and countryside.

I think the walking trip would be awesome...why would you get arrested? Have you ever seen any ruins or castles?

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Melahny: Then you have seen episodes I have seen as well. Funnily, easy to watch on Youtube. I saw on Monday a lot of footage of the Scottish country side, with nice houses and cute villages from the helicopter. Lots of green and wildland too. Amazing scenery from Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh.

[Melahny_oftheWoods]

@Aikári Salmarinian From Escape to the Country? Yes it's such a great show. It's very peaceful to watch. The scenery in "Outlander" of the Highlands... very beautiful. I love the small villages too. I'm glad they renovate and keep a lot of the old buildings and continue to use them. That's another thing I like from Escape to the Country, they show old properties that are renovated and well cared for. It'd be so cool to live in a historical building.

I also adore villages like this with the rivers. I love water so I'd be happy to row or swim around town!

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/trav ... thout-cars

[Fuin Elda]

@Fuin Elda Yeah, I live in southern Ontario so it's all farmland, beaches, and woods (which is beautiful!) but no mountains. I've never been out west but I want to! That sounds like so much fun, I hope you get to do that.

I've never been to England (never been out of Ontario really). I very much want to visit England...I watch a lot of period dramas filmed there, and there's so many locations I want to visit....Scotland Highlands, Ireland, Somerset. I watch "Escape to the Country" as I love seeing the English gardens and countryside.

I think the walking trip would be awesome...why would you get arrested? Have you ever seen any ruins or castles?

England doesn't have a right to roam law that I'm aware of. Scotland does so could do it there England has some weird laws so I'd want to really look into that first.

As for castles I saw Hampton Court and despite traveling with a mobility impaired person I explored every nook and cranny I was allowed to explore. I loved it

[Melahny_oftheWoods]

Really, you're not allowed to walk around in some countries? That's so weird... why should they have any right to stop people from travelling by foot? Crazy.

And wow that's amazing! I'm glad you got to explore it. :D

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Melahny: Nothing crazy or strange about it. We can roam over paths, roads and footpaths where humans are allowed to come. Hundreds of kilometers. Some nature is vulnerable one should not come. In Holland the same way. We can travel on foot or bike.

[Lail]

I recall another reason for filming in NZ aside from Jackson's thorough knowledge of the landscape and a variety of geographic features being close together and available for needed scenery was that they searched far and wide for the place to film Hobbiton because they required no visible powerlines, roads, modern anything to be in the shots. The farm they wound up using was perfect in that regard and it even had a tree by the pond they wanted for the Party Tree.

I imagine they had similar wishes for other locations as well to avoid digitally editing things out. Having lived in NZ for 4 years, there are many places one can go to get completely away from civilization and not see powerlines, highways, etc. anywhere for many many miles. I haven't been to England but looking at a map and comparing the two just based on how many roads there are, I believe it would much more difficult to find more remote/wild areas in England for filming.

If I remember correctly, the place where they shot Edoras is very remote - one has to drive, then hike very far or take a helicopter to get there.

I'm also not sure where they would have filmed things like Mt Doom, the battle at the Black Gates, etc. in England without building massive sets or lots of CGI. New Zealand has volcanic regions, even though they did not film the tops of Mount Ngauruhoe and Mount Ruapehu (which were Mt Doom in the movies) and instead CGIed them in because they are sacred to the Indigenous Maori people.

[Bearamir]

I think Jackson made excellent decision to film in New Zealand. The landscape of Middle-Earth is varied, and while England has some of those places, it would (I think) have been hard to find places remote enough not to have signs of vehicle or pedestrian traffic on land (and air traffic overhead). And don't forget power lines, they do show up in inconvenient places...

Even so, looks can be deceiving. Remember, poor Sean Aston ended up with a huge piece of glass in his foot after stepping into what appeared to be a pristine (and supposedly very isolated) lake during the filming of the breakup of the fellowship.