From Caesar to Gothmog

[The Good Hunter]

I can't remember where I saw it, or even when, but recently I remembered a theory on the name of Gothmog that has my theorycrafting worldbuilding wheels turning. It could all be nonsense, and it likely is, but even so...

What if the name of Gothmog, like the names of Caesar and Augustus in our world, changed from simply referring to a single person to a title bestowed on someone?

I don't have any lore, facts, or suppositions to back this random theory up, but I'm curious. How off base am I? Could something like this be possible? Could the name Gothmog we see in Return of the King be referring to a sort of military title rather than an actual name?

[Boromir88]

I don't know if there's anything to say conclusively one way or another. Or if there is, I wouldn't know where to find it. The Gothmog, under Sauron, I'm only aware of being mentioned in those few sentences during Pelennor Fields.

My approach to lore has changed over the years. I've kind of been thinking about posting a thread here about it, but in the Media Adaptations forum because it ties into wondering how others approach adaptations. I have so many things going on at the moment, I'm just glad I can post again.

Where was I? Oh right, it's definitely a borrowed from the balrog, Gothmog, as Sauron also borrowed "Grond." But Tolkien also recycled names, so it could be that as well. I would say with nothing conclusive one way or another, if your head-canon is Gothmog's a title, like Caesar or Augustus, then that's what it is. You might also be able to ask how many of Sauron's upper ranks had actual names? Part of being underneath Sauron is a loss of your identity, losing your name is losing your identity. The Witch-King, Mouth of Sauron, even Khamul is arguably a title and not the name of one of the Nazgul.

[Rivvy Elf]

A fun question would be, if Sauron did relegate Gothmog to a title subservient to Sauron, how would the balrog, Gothmog, have thought about it? Which opens the door to... could there have been power struggles between Sauron and Gothmog when they were underneath Morgoth?

[Androthelm]

@Boromir88 I'd love to hear your thoughts incidentally... I suspect I've been on a similar path recently.

As for the question at hand, and more particularly @Rivvy Elf's speculation: isn't it interesting that the original Gothmog was a lieutenant of Morgoth, whereas the "new" Gothmog is a lieutenant of Sauron (who was himself a lieutenant of Morgoth). We could see this as a decline in Gothmog... or a mark of Sauron's ascension, as he attempts to position himself in the same role Morgoth once held. Either way, an interesting line to be thinking along.

[The Good Hunter]

@Boromir88: I love the connection to the loss of identity, the complete mechanization and industrialization if you will, feels very much like a hallmark of working and living under Sauron. Even the highest ranks were basically blank slates to be filled in. I doubt the war strategy changed too much after the death of the Witch-King to the final battle. Sure there was great dismay at his death in the moment, but overall the wheel keeps on crushing and turning.

As to adaptation lore, I personally would love to see it and Media Adaptions seems a great place to put it for now.

@Rivvy Elf It's always been my understand (and thus into my writing) that Gothmog and Sauron were rivals but Sauron was always top dog. Sauron was a craftsman and a wizard whereas Gothmog was a heavy bruiser. I think that's something that ought to be explored, either in writing or lorecrafting.

@Androthelm soon there will be a gothmog of a gothmog of the Witch-King relegated to fetching coffee and donuts for the Monday morning meetings.

[Romeran]

soon there will be a gothmog of a gothmog of the Witch-King relegated to fetching coffee and donuts for the Monday morning meetings.

Don't laugh at my job

Also I could imagine that Elessar (elfstone) might have had similar effects as Caesar as Aragon was crowned King Elessar but which originally referred to the physical stone.

[Silky Gooseness]

On the theme of earned titles/names, we have some of the Gondor kings with names like “Hyarmendacil” or “Romendacil” or “Umbardacil”, adopted on victories over the South, East, and Umbar; and the first, at least, is taken as a hereditary name as well