Lord of the Rings Fanatics Plaza

Thank you for explaining/rectifying, @Winddancer

Thank you all. I made it through the week alright despite some exhaustion, and appreciate your many messages. Hoping to find time to write again in the coming days, as it helps to shift focus at times. Gondor is a good place to take a rest.

@Karis Ziranphel, I'm so sorry. I hope you are able to find some respite here or elsewhere. sending you comfort and condolences to you and your family.


I had a RP-related question about Minas Tirith I've been wondering for a while... Where do the people bury their dead? A graveyard outside the city/in the Pelennor fields, in crypts or catacombs? As far as I know, we only see the Hallows where I get the impression "important" folk were buried but what about all the other "regular" (for lack of better word) people? anyone have lore or Plaza-lore info, ideas or opinions about this?

@Kirinki I am no good with lore... but would guess that there might be both catacombs/street/something within the city and some sort of a graveyard? Perhaps @Ercassie has ideas? ;)

Hi there, Aiks! Hmmm. If you want fun, then there's SpringFest cooking thread; otherwise I think most activity is in free threads. Take a look and see what you might like? :)

Kirinki wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:11 pmI had a RP-related question about Minas Tirith I've been wondering for a while... Where do the people bury their dead? A graveyard outside the city/in the Pelennor fields, in crypts or catacombs? As far as I know, we only see the Hallows where I get the impression "important" folk were buried but what about all the other "regular" (for lack of better word) people? anyone have lore or Plaza-lore info, ideas or opinions about this?

Thank you for the prod, @Pele Alarion. That is a very interesting question, @Kirinki, and honestly I'm surprised not to see a very informative historian's opinion by now, from @Nessa Saelind. But maybe she is busy elsewhere.

It is a matter I have considered, much like yourself. For I have a character who is an undertakers daughter, etc. So it has come into consideration for rp. Mostly I have skirted around the actual specifics by having said undertaker work at mostly consoling the aggrieved relatives as they commence discussion about laying the body to rest. That actual discussion they would then have is not something I have ever played out.

Tolkien wrote about the subject in his books, but largely, as you say, only ever in specific relation to great King's etc which is of course all well and good. Boromir's death rites were, despite his status, more a response to what was available to those who tended his body at the time of his death. Countless soldiers who died abroad at war for Gondor may have been similarly settled rather than the survivors bringing home their remains. So what about the regular people ? Truth is we don't know for sure. The description of Minas tirith in the book doesn't just remark about the Hallows but also states that the men of Gondor are generally very concerned with vast monuments and memoriam. Combine that with Denethor's rant that he shall not wait to be embalmed or entombed, but shall burn in a pyre like the 'heathen kings of old' who were of a time 'before ever a ship came out of the west'. Personally that would lead me to conclude that pre-numenorean death rites in the lands they were colonising (ie Pelargir and Umbar regions) were by fire. And the 'faithful' men who honoured the Valar had possibly established the art of tombs etc when they settled in the land later. There were likewise barrows in Arnor, which were a remnant of the early Edain of the first age but which were later incorporated into the region of Arnor. So the Cairns of Tyrn Gorthad might give us a flashback to the Dunedain's earliest forefathers already using stone Chambers to lay their dead.

A very significant aspect of the subject is that Gondor endured a horrific plague which struck Osgilliath in 1636 TA and from there spread North and West into Arnor. That is 1500 ish years before the time we are currently role-playing and it is worth considering that the mass deaths of that event must have caused the establishment of ways to lay the dead to rest.

As far as rp goes, I would suggest doing what feels right to you, given the circumstances. There is clearly no right answer, so you can not get it wrong. You could start a thread in the lore fora to gather further opinions from our learned Tolkien scholars on site if you wanted to ? Personally I would think that some sort of catacombs were likely. Not only because of the Dinedain forefathers building barrow downs, but also the fact that of the White mountains being a vast stretch of a landmark, almost like the natural spine of Gondor. Besides which, I have a vague memory of catacombs being used in RP back in 2003 plaza Gondor. Though that might have been largely a Muinamacar dungeon RP, it nonetheless implies a predecessor of the notion of Catacombs as an existing issue in the Gondorian kingdom.

If you are rping a character who lives in Gondor, then certainly a Mortal is most likely and especially humans, Aiks. Elves, dwarves and maybe even hobbits could have realistically visited though, particularly since we are Rping largely in early 4th Age Gondor. Tolkien did say that Legolas and Gimli for eg came back with some of their people to see the region. Pippin and Merry later returned to be buried in Gondor but we don't hear of any hobbit visits other than that. I guess hobbits in general are less likely to go adventuring/travelling on such a long trip to get to Gondor. Which is not to say that some excitable Took hobbit for example might decide to go tour the far-off cities that his own country's heroes had told him tales of. Humans from the North might be Rangers who wanted to come to see their new King for themselves, etc etc. Maybe men from the east/south if they were here on a pledge of peace treaty to make with Aragorn etc. But these last might meet suspicion realistically.

There is a huge choice of character types for you to play with. The only unlikely contenders would be orcs and trolls and goblins walking around freely. Gondor has always had guards and had gates with passwords etc and I doubt an orc would get past them, any more than you would likely see Hobbits go picnicking in Mordor. Given how many Gondorians would have been killed by orcs during the war, I expect they would kill them on sight even in the 4th age, and any orc would have to have a death wish to even try to enter Minas Tirith itself where everyone would likely want to kill it.

But even then, it would not be out of order to play even these types of characters if rping in a flashback, say at the pelennor fields battle etc, or a raiding party in the Ithilien and Harondor free rp thread, especially if your rp is set pre-ROTK on some kind of raid. Likewise corsairs could show up in the southern Free RP although they could still be able to sneak in with evil intentions if they are clever in the 4th age. Orcs still would have no chance.

@Kirinki @Ercassie
Based on the clues we get from Tolkien about how important the dead and the past is, it always reminded me of the Roman Empire - and that has always been a feeling I had, that Gondor sort of echoes the Roman/Byzantine Empire. If I remember my Latin classes right, even the poorest people in Rome were placed in some sort of catacombs, cut out burial chambers under the ground, etc. (During the times they weren’t into cremation.) So it would not be a stretch to figure a city like MT would have one or several catacomb locations cut out into the mountain. Nor would be it be a stretch to assume that there would be underground burial chambers throughout Gondor, or that farmers would have private barrow hills for their families etc. The richer people were, the more stone would be involved (I am thinking decorated mausolea).

Like Ercassie pointed out, this isn't canon.. Just one way to think how they would go about it, which shouldn’t be entirely illogical.

*keeps in mind the all the discussion on funerals and graves and such* Might come in handy!

Hiya, everyone! Just a quick heads up that I'm going on a short family vacation from tomorrow morning until late evening Monday. I'm not taking my laptop, so IF I post, it will be on my phone. Which will result in very weird autocorrect. Quite possibly I will mostly be doing other things in the evenings (like maybe shortening my to-read list). XD

@Aikári Salmarinian Well, cooking contest, guesthouse? I don't know... Where you'd feel comfy doing social stuff.

@Arnyn Fiiiiine. Go on, enjoy yourself and the family!

Have fun on your vacation Arnyn!

My family is all taking off for the weekend as well, so I might get to some posting while they are gone. I have just enough busy-ness every day that I couldn't tag along for a day. Two funerals, baccalaureate services, regular services, and memorial day observances including playing taps. Perhaps I will finally let Thullir finish his action in the Guesthouse.

Thank you @Ercassie, @Pele Alarion and @Arnyn! I appreciate your thoughts very much.

I dug into the books about this a while back and it seems we came to similar conclusions. At the very least we know Gondorians and Rohirrim typically buried their dead (indicated by Denethor's comments about heathen kings burning and Numenorean burial sites in Arnor and Gondor as you say, as well as the barrows near Edoras, the burial of Rohir and Dunlending soldiers at Helm's Deep vs. burning of orcs).

Good to know there was no Plaza-precedent then as far as we know. I'll go with what seems right and keep it nonspecific (if I ever get to writing it...at this rate, it seems unlikely or far away). Catacombs do make the most sense to me, as you say, the mountains are right there and as @Arnyn mentioned, there is a historical basis, too. It's also kind of fun to imagine the catacombs and all the potential stories that could take place in them!

@Aikári Salmarinian Well then. Join in? Just mind the hound and the goose being tossed out the door... :P

I'm baaaaaaaack! (Happy? Ominous? Your call XD)

It was a laid back vacation, more for the kids than for us. But it was great to see them laugh and try new things!

Well, this is a warning of probably no posts for a week - got a pair of lovely guests to entertain the whole next week. Perhaps will find proper inspiration right after! Or in between, if I am left alone for a moment or two.

Yet another warning in advance. Heading off for the weekend to hunt for control points in the woods. So won't have internet for a couple days. But yay - sleeping in a tent! In all other ways I do not really feel prepared for 24h rogaining, but still. Adventure! And feeling sorta like a Ranger.

Yay! Hope you have fun, Pele!

I'd like to ask, is there a different training grounds for the city guards, or would they use the same ones the rangers use? Not a lot of us have city guards, but there are a couple of us, and I was wondering if there's anywhere I might write my guard doing some practice or something.

Hello hello! Hail and well met. I think I am back, possibly, to do some good ole RPing on these forums. Been absent almost two years Definitely did not expect my hiatus to be this long! Looking to dive back into things with my Gondor/Dol Amroth character, Abrazimir Dimaethor of Lond Côl.

Hail and well met indeed! Glad you have you back, if you would ever like a partner or foil or nemesis, I would gladly offer my services.

Welcome back @Lantaelen. You picked a good time to return. There is an awful lot going on in Gondor at the moment.

Aha! Look, who happened to drop by! Great to see you, @Lantaelen !

Just a note, in case I become invisible suddenly - I might be a bit on and off until Monday-ish. Taking some time off, visiting friends, running, attending a conference thingy and what not.

Welcome back!

Woohoo! Can't wait to see you writing again, Lantaelen! XD

Zeal & Ardor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:16 am Hail and well met indeed! Glad you have you back, if you would ever like a partner or foil or nemesis, I would gladly offer my services.

Ercassie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:33 am Welcome back @Lantaelen. You picked a good time to return. There is an awful lot going on in Gondor at the moment.

Pele Alarion wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:09 am Aha! Look, who happened to drop by! Great to see you, @Lantaelen !

Winddancer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:25 am Welcome back!

Arnyn wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:42 pm Woohoo! Can't wait to see you writing again, Lantaelen! XD

Oof, what a reception! Thank you all so much for the kind words

Ercassie gave me a wonderful rundown of some current threads going on! I'm hoping to get into the Erulaitale thread in the Pelennor and possibly the camping expedition outside Minas Tirith over in Open? Any advice on how to enter or should I just have Abrazi show up and y'all can pull him in?

*chants* Show up! show up! show up!

I'll join in all the excitement everyone else has shown in welcoming you back, @Lantaelen , although I've never met you lol. Hope to remedy that soon!

Arnyn wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:00 pm *chants* Show up! show up! show up!

I'm working on it, promise!

Rillewen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:49 pm I'll join in all the excitement everyone else has shown in welcoming you back, @Lantaelen , although I've never met you lol. Hope to remedy that soon!

Thank you! Nice to meet you as well I'm sure we'll be getting into some RP shenanigans soon together.

Absolutely! I'm involved in a great many rps with a great many characters, so you're sure to meet some of them at some point, lol. I'm also on discord if you'd like to plot anything specific. I'm always open to new rps :D

It's true, she really is. I can vouch for it.

I believe you both! I've already seen much and more. Still got lots of reading to do. Out In The Open, should be stuck in within a few hours, after work here. Erulaitale, just got to do a bit more reading to catch up.

*insert obligatory "don't forget about Mordor" post*

There are definitely rps beyond Gondor, if you're interested in places outside Gondor :D

I do have a few other characters elsewhere, in other lands, but for now, one at a time (or two in this case).

Just curious, how old is abrazimir?
@Lantaelen

Moriel wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:26 pm @Lantaelen ! Welcome back!

Hey! It's good to see you!

Rillewen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:26 pm Just curious, how old is abrazimir?
@Lantaelen

He is born 2990 TA so he should be 28 by the War of the Ring in 3018/3019. Then adjust for whatever dates the various threads occur in.

Cool, thanks. All the current dates are kind of vague, as just being 'a few years after the War', so it makes estimating ages based on a year a little tricky lol

Yeah that makes sense. 25-35ish would be the general age range for him.

Most of my characters are early 20s or younger, but i have my ranger Duinion who's uh.. somewhere around 35-40ish. He's in Out in the Open so you'll probably meet him

I'm hoping to meet, and re-meet, everyone between these two threads! I read some of your character sheets, they're quite impressive :)

Lol thanks, I've read yours too, and was also impressed.

Welcome back Lantaelen! I look forward to seeing more of Abrazamir again.

I am finally reunited with my laptop and back in the US after a week in Albania, and hope to get a little time for writing after work on occasion. Unlike some talented individuals, I don't have the patience for posting from my phone.