@Isolde Alarion Welcome back! <3
@Nessa Saelind Not against your idea, but on the other hand I never saw the need for a new thread as not that many use it anyways. I think I am also under the assumption that we can contact Veo on Discord if we wanted anything changed or if we wanted something added (that's how I got my pipe shop thing). Also people could just open another shop of the same kind if owner is MIA and they really wanted one like it.
But like I said, not too fussed, just dont see it as having prevented anyone from doing what they wanted so far ;)
Marketplace OOC
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Winddancer
Posts: 2531
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 11:22 am
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Nazgûl
Posts: 2756
Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 11:02 am
I'm gonna pop in and say I agree with Where Windy is coming here. Aside from symmetry, there's not really a reason to create a new thread. The Markets aren't heavily used so creating a new thread based purely on "schedule" feels like a waste.
As far as I know, Veo isn't active here anymore but she still pops her head in on the Discord and can be contacted that way with any ideas, comments, questions, new shops, etc.
And as far as shops go, why not just make up a shop and NPC for your RP needs? If your particular story is a planned one and needs something why wait on someone else to roll around? If it's not planned and you're employing the "YES AND" method then bring a friend or ask someone in the RP Request Form.
Just my two cents anyway, feel free to disregard them as they are probably covered in fungus and frog slime
As far as I know, Veo isn't active here anymore but she still pops her head in on the Discord and can be contacted that way with any ideas, comments, questions, new shops, etc.
And as far as shops go, why not just make up a shop and NPC for your RP needs? If your particular story is a planned one and needs something why wait on someone else to roll around? If it's not planned and you're employing the "YES AND" method then bring a friend or ask someone in the RP Request Form.
Just my two cents anyway, feel free to disregard them as they are probably covered in fungus and frog slime
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Counsellor of Gondor
Posts: 634
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 8:37 am
The fact of whether we need a new thread isn’t really the problem as I see it, honestly. It’s more the fact that the opening post is entirely out of date. And if your idea @Nessa Saelind is to contact the thread runner @Veowyn in order to ask for either her to update it or, if she isnt interested any more, for an admin to, then that seems entirely reasonable.
The opening post after all currently lists all the so-far-created stores and their keepers; of which there are over a dozen. The opening post also states these are the people ‘available to interact with you’. But that is just not so. Not at all. Of that dozen or so on the list, there are actually only three or four of us still active. And I don’t mean active as in regularly RPing at the market/our assigned store. I mean only about three or four of us are active at all anywhere on the site. Most of that original dozen have not even logged in for over a year. One at least has never even posted in the store they asked to be listed for, and as they haven’t signed onto the site for over a year, I doubt they even remember it let alone intend to do so.
If someone looks at the opening post right now, to see how/where they can RP in the thread, then they are getting very inaccurate information. They may want to open a store with their own IC and think they can’t because that kind of store is already listed as owned by somebody else. They may think they can carry out an interactive RP with a store owner, but they will not in fact likely get any response to enquiries/introductions that they post IC.
It would be neat if we could have an updated opening post to make clear this sort of thing. Sort of like :
a) if a store is already listed as owned, you can still open that type of store yourself as well.
You could start a price war with a competing supplier, or work together to recommend each other’s specific specialities to customers, etc so both win out. Anything like this will only increase RP in the thread, and there is not a city in any country in the world which only has one grocer, or one blacksmith, or one anything really. So it’s realistic.
b) if you enter the store you’ve chosen to RP in and the store owner is inactive then to describe them would be godmoding the writer’s original character. But there’s no reason you can’t RP going to find an alternative store of that sort and just RP there with an assumed NPC of that shop, or even set up that NPC as your own character and become an active store keeper yourself.
You might think that this is obvious. In fact a few of you have pretty much said so in your posts just above mine. But on the old plaza, the Minas Tirith marketplace said there could only be one of each type of shopkeeper. So if you were a member here now who was a previous Gondorian member then that kind of mindset might be influencing your understanding of the situation.
Of course if the store listed here has an inactive owner then it is clearly very unfair to keep something reserved that is not even being used. And I think a lot of people may assume this is what’s happening. If we work under the clear assumption that anyone can come in and simply become a store keeper then of course it all is easier.
The opening post does say that if you want to visit a store and there is not one yet, then you may of course create one. But if you want to visit a store which is already created but inactive then it presently reads as though you are stuck really.
The opening post also talks about the old hierarchy of novices and apprentices which no one has bothered with IC. The opening post also refers to guilds and fellowships which were also an established associate to the original Minas Tirith marketplace. But it doesn’t explain these opportunities to people who may look at the thread and be unfamiliar with them.
At the end of the day, this thread was opened at a time when we’d all just come back to play on a new variant of the old site. Veowyn had no way to know what would happen with storekeepers activity, or indeed her own, at that time. None of us did. We were carried away by nostalgia and not sure if it would last, let alone how altered our policies and lifestyles would all be that impact on the way we play here. Here we are over a year after Veowyn graciously opened up the thread and yes, it’s become apparent that a lot of things are different to how they used to be. But the opening post does not reflect that. And since we’re encouraged to read the opening post as a first point of resource for the thread/activity, let alone to make ourselves aware of any rules we must abide by, i think what you are saying has point, Nessa.
But we can’t change how the thread is run without the thread runners permission, which should definitely be the next stage if any consideration here. Which is what you stated is your intention. So
As a current and Turtle speed active RPer in the thread, I very much understand your reasons for broaching the subject and I wholeheartedly approve of you contacting Veowyn to see what she thinks about it all.
The opening post after all currently lists all the so-far-created stores and their keepers; of which there are over a dozen. The opening post also states these are the people ‘available to interact with you’. But that is just not so. Not at all. Of that dozen or so on the list, there are actually only three or four of us still active. And I don’t mean active as in regularly RPing at the market/our assigned store. I mean only about three or four of us are active at all anywhere on the site. Most of that original dozen have not even logged in for over a year. One at least has never even posted in the store they asked to be listed for, and as they haven’t signed onto the site for over a year, I doubt they even remember it let alone intend to do so.
If someone looks at the opening post right now, to see how/where they can RP in the thread, then they are getting very inaccurate information. They may want to open a store with their own IC and think they can’t because that kind of store is already listed as owned by somebody else. They may think they can carry out an interactive RP with a store owner, but they will not in fact likely get any response to enquiries/introductions that they post IC.
It would be neat if we could have an updated opening post to make clear this sort of thing. Sort of like :
a) if a store is already listed as owned, you can still open that type of store yourself as well.
You could start a price war with a competing supplier, or work together to recommend each other’s specific specialities to customers, etc so both win out. Anything like this will only increase RP in the thread, and there is not a city in any country in the world which only has one grocer, or one blacksmith, or one anything really. So it’s realistic.
b) if you enter the store you’ve chosen to RP in and the store owner is inactive then to describe them would be godmoding the writer’s original character. But there’s no reason you can’t RP going to find an alternative store of that sort and just RP there with an assumed NPC of that shop, or even set up that NPC as your own character and become an active store keeper yourself.
You might think that this is obvious. In fact a few of you have pretty much said so in your posts just above mine. But on the old plaza, the Minas Tirith marketplace said there could only be one of each type of shopkeeper. So if you were a member here now who was a previous Gondorian member then that kind of mindset might be influencing your understanding of the situation.
Of course if the store listed here has an inactive owner then it is clearly very unfair to keep something reserved that is not even being used. And I think a lot of people may assume this is what’s happening. If we work under the clear assumption that anyone can come in and simply become a store keeper then of course it all is easier.
The opening post does say that if you want to visit a store and there is not one yet, then you may of course create one. But if you want to visit a store which is already created but inactive then it presently reads as though you are stuck really.
The opening post also talks about the old hierarchy of novices and apprentices which no one has bothered with IC. The opening post also refers to guilds and fellowships which were also an established associate to the original Minas Tirith marketplace. But it doesn’t explain these opportunities to people who may look at the thread and be unfamiliar with them.
At the end of the day, this thread was opened at a time when we’d all just come back to play on a new variant of the old site. Veowyn had no way to know what would happen with storekeepers activity, or indeed her own, at that time. None of us did. We were carried away by nostalgia and not sure if it would last, let alone how altered our policies and lifestyles would all be that impact on the way we play here. Here we are over a year after Veowyn graciously opened up the thread and yes, it’s become apparent that a lot of things are different to how they used to be. But the opening post does not reflect that. And since we’re encouraged to read the opening post as a first point of resource for the thread/activity, let alone to make ourselves aware of any rules we must abide by, i think what you are saying has point, Nessa.
But we can’t change how the thread is run without the thread runners permission, which should definitely be the next stage if any consideration here. Which is what you stated is your intention. So
As a current and Turtle speed active RPer in the thread, I very much understand your reasons for broaching the subject and I wholeheartedly approve of you contacting Veowyn to see what she thinks about it all.
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Fool of a Took
Posts: 1261
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 7:12 pm
First of all thank you ladies and a lonely gentleman 
who took the time to respond to my suggestion 
I really appreciate it how you all take the time out of your day to come and respond to my Friends, Gondorians, countrymen moments 
I do agree with you @Winddancer and @cHa0s BrO that a new Marketplace thread may not really be necessary. However, @Ercassie hit a lot of nails on the head in her post.
Especially when it comes to pointing out the circumstances in how this thread came to be opened and how those circumstances changed, but are not reflected in the OP.
Like Cassie mentioned, as an Old Gondorian from the Old Plaza, I assumed that once a particular shop is taken you can't have the same type of shop opened in the MT market e.g. you can't have 2 bakeries or apothecaries or blacksmiths... The current Riddermarket even states that in the rules "No repeat shops. If someone sells something already, think of another idea. We don't want overlap." I guess I shouldn't have assumed, and should have just asked here in the OOC, but
eh... It didn't really click with me, I suppose.
The main drive, so to say, behind my suggestion to open a new Marketplace thread was in part a desire to have a thread that reflects the current situation: which shops are open, which are inactive, what kind of structure do we want to have with shopkeepers and craftsmen ranks or do we even want to have those? Basically, to have an active TR so that everything is up to date and the people who want to RP here, regardless if they want to have a shop, apprentice, be a customer or just have a private RP know whom they can interact with...
I'm aware that a lot of things were copied from the Old Plaza because it was easier to c/p something than to invent the wheel, and besides it was already there so why not. But if you copy the text without the structure it's just confusing... So I wanted to sort it out and maybe implement some new ideas and some of your suggestions. When I was thinking about it, to me it seemed simpler to ask @Veowyn if a new thread could be open rather than to "bug" her every time I have a "brilliant" idea and she needs to log in and update things. And I don't want to hijack anyone's thread, especially if that person is not very active, because I have some ideas that I would like to implement in it. However, I wanted to hear your opinions and suggestions, because my "brilliant" ideas sometimes have holes in them the size of the Moon. And I do value everyone's feedback and I wanted to hear it before I go ask Veo about it, because I truly don't want to bother her and bore her to death if she's busy with RL stuff.
But if the majority thinks if things could be sorted if Veo or an admin with her permission can edit the OP to reflect the current situation - that' always good. As long as we find the simplest and easiest solution to everyone's agreement.
Thank you, once again for your feedback and reading this, I hope I made sense - I'm really sleepy so I'm not sure I'm making much sense
who took the time to respond to my suggestion I really appreciate it how you all take the time out of your day to come and respond to my Friends, Gondorians, countrymen moments I do agree with you @Winddancer and @cHa0s BrO that a new Marketplace thread may not really be necessary. However, @Ercassie hit a lot of nails on the head in her post.
Especially when it comes to pointing out the circumstances in how this thread came to be opened and how those circumstances changed, but are not reflected in the OP. Like Cassie mentioned, as an Old Gondorian from the Old Plaza, I assumed that once a particular shop is taken you can't have the same type of shop opened in the MT market e.g. you can't have 2 bakeries or apothecaries or blacksmiths... The current Riddermarket even states that in the rules "No repeat shops. If someone sells something already, think of another idea. We don't want overlap." I guess I shouldn't have assumed, and should have just asked here in the OOC, but
eh... It didn't really click with me, I suppose. The main drive, so to say, behind my suggestion to open a new Marketplace thread was in part a desire to have a thread that reflects the current situation: which shops are open, which are inactive, what kind of structure do we want to have with shopkeepers and craftsmen ranks or do we even want to have those? Basically, to have an active TR so that everything is up to date and the people who want to RP here, regardless if they want to have a shop, apprentice, be a customer or just have a private RP know whom they can interact with...
I'm aware that a lot of things were copied from the Old Plaza because it was easier to c/p something than to invent the wheel, and besides it was already there so why not.
But if you copy the text without the structure it's just confusing... So I wanted to sort it out and maybe implement some new ideas and some of your suggestions. When I was thinking about it, to me it seemed simpler to ask @Veowyn if a new thread could be open rather than to "bug" her every time I have a "brilliant" idea and she needs to log in and update things. And I don't want to hijack anyone's thread, especially if that person is not very active, because I have some ideas that I would like to implement in it. However, I wanted to hear your opinions and suggestions, because my "brilliant" ideas sometimes have holes in them the size of the Moon. And I do value everyone's feedback and I wanted to hear it before I go ask Veo about it, because I truly don't want to bother her and bore her to death if she's busy with RL stuff.But if the majority thinks if things could be sorted if Veo or an admin with her permission can edit the OP to reflect the current situation - that' always good. As long as we find the simplest and easiest solution to everyone's agreement.
Thank you, once again for your feedback and reading this, I hope I made sense - I'm really sleepy so I'm not sure I'm making much sense
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Elder of The Mark
Posts: 1790
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:53 am
So I'm sort of a cross between the two major answers
I think we should open a new thread (with Veo's permission of course) but have it opened by someone that is active on NuPlaza and the market. and I say this for a few reasons Veo isn't always on Discord, and while NuPlaza is team turtle primarily we are getting more members that are quicker posters which means waiting for however long for Veo to come onto discord due to RL (which is totally fine) can cut the activity out from those members. Where as if we at least have someone actively on plaza there is a good chance we'll get an answer faster.
Also I feel like a complete reworking of the rules to reflect the suggestions that @Ercassie mentioned with allowing competing shops, and the removal of items that just haven't been used because NuPlaza just isn't active enough to be cleared out without the head ache of trying to get permission from Veo every time the OP needs to be updated would be better suited to a new thread (which at that point as long as the thread runner is active can be left alone in terms of opening new threads until the thread starts getting cumbersome.
I think we should open a new thread (with Veo's permission of course) but have it opened by someone that is active on NuPlaza and the market. and I say this for a few reasons Veo isn't always on Discord, and while NuPlaza is team turtle primarily we are getting more members that are quicker posters which means waiting for however long for Veo to come onto discord due to RL (which is totally fine) can cut the activity out from those members. Where as if we at least have someone actively on plaza there is a good chance we'll get an answer faster.
Also I feel like a complete reworking of the rules to reflect the suggestions that @Ercassie mentioned with allowing competing shops, and the removal of items that just haven't been used because NuPlaza just isn't active enough to be cleared out without the head ache of trying to get permission from Veo every time the OP needs to be updated would be better suited to a new thread (which at that point as long as the thread runner is active can be left alone in terms of opening new threads until the thread starts getting cumbersome.
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Counsellor of Gondor
Posts: 1078
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 2:58 pm
*comes by to say something too* I figure a new thread would look neater cleaned up and updated, especially if someone can open it and keep an eye on it actively (Veo or anyone else as agreed). But I figure I haven't added nothing new, just supporting some of already expressed ideas.
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Elwing
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 11:34 pm
I see both sides here for sure...ultimately, I think it will depend on what @Veowyn says, if she wants to pop by to keep the OP up-to-date, have an admin do it (personally as an admin, something I’d rather not do) or pass it on.
From my perspective as a non-shopkeeper, when I first went to post in the Marketplace, I read the OP, noticed it was a bit old and then read/skimmed the thread to see what shops/shopkeepers were recently active. I came to a list of 3-4 shops and chose one to visit. In that sense, it wasn’t really a problem that the OP/list of shops were not a current representation of activity in the thread because I found what info I needed anyway.
I do see the value in having an up-to-date OP but - while I’d love to think that a new TR will stick around, life/whatever happens, and if that person fades away, then we will end up in the exact same boat again.
If it is decided to make a new marketplace thread...What if there was no shop list in the OP and it was styled a bit more like a Free RP type thread? People could just pop in and open a shop as they feel like with whatever character and if they decide they don’t want to run it or want the day to change, they could close the shop or move the time forward or whatever.
This would give people a lot of freedom and flexibility and:
- Does not require a TR to maintain an up-to-date list of shops and eliminates the out of date OP problem entirely
- Does not require shop owners to commit long term to maintaining a shop (could be a pro or a con depending on your POV) but also allow them to do so if they want to
- Could potentially foster more variety in shop types as different ones cycle through?
- Potentially creates opportunity for the thread to flow on different timelines (kind of like the HoH) so people can keep up at their own pace but still allows for overlapping/interwoven stories (ok I see how this could get complicated but I think it could also work)
Hate it or throw my idea in the waste bin if you want to, I don’t mind. To be fair, I haven’t thought it through a ton and there could be 1,000 issues I don’t see which is why I present it to you all.
Whatever happens, I’ll still RP in the market regardless of how it’s run because markets are one of my favorite places to RP!
From my perspective as a non-shopkeeper, when I first went to post in the Marketplace, I read the OP, noticed it was a bit old and then read/skimmed the thread to see what shops/shopkeepers were recently active. I came to a list of 3-4 shops and chose one to visit. In that sense, it wasn’t really a problem that the OP/list of shops were not a current representation of activity in the thread because I found what info I needed anyway.
I do see the value in having an up-to-date OP but - while I’d love to think that a new TR will stick around, life/whatever happens, and if that person fades away, then we will end up in the exact same boat again.
If it is decided to make a new marketplace thread...What if there was no shop list in the OP and it was styled a bit more like a Free RP type thread? People could just pop in and open a shop as they feel like with whatever character and if they decide they don’t want to run it or want the day to change, they could close the shop or move the time forward or whatever.
This would give people a lot of freedom and flexibility and:
- Does not require a TR to maintain an up-to-date list of shops and eliminates the out of date OP problem entirely
- Does not require shop owners to commit long term to maintaining a shop (could be a pro or a con depending on your POV) but also allow them to do so if they want to
- Could potentially foster more variety in shop types as different ones cycle through?
- Potentially creates opportunity for the thread to flow on different timelines (kind of like the HoH) so people can keep up at their own pace but still allows for overlapping/interwoven stories (ok I see how this could get complicated but I think it could also work)
Hate it or throw my idea in the waste bin if you want to, I don’t mind. To be fair, I haven’t thought it through a ton and there could be 1,000 issues I don’t see which is why I present it to you all.
Whatever happens, I’ll still RP in the market regardless of how it’s run because markets are one of my favorite places to RP!
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Counsellor of Gondor
Posts: 634
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 8:37 am
I know I’ve already had (more than) my say on this, but I do want to add here that I think @Lailyn’s idea has definite merit, actually. Gondor had traditionally been the kingdom which relies a great deal on knowing exactly where we stand in threads, so a lot of what we have been used to is extremely different to the very new very flexible path that this Nu version of the Plaza has started taking.
However, the marketplace here, as was, was definitely in need of a hands on and active ThreadRunner, in order to organise and keep track of all the associated Guilds and Fellowships and apprenticeships and Traderoutes and so forth that we initially had going on. Something that I understand Veowyn managed for a considerable time. Clearly the MT marketplace of Nuplaza has not really put any of that complicated foundation to use. So it now could far more easily resemble just a more generic Free RP thread. Which yes, would absolutely make the job of constantly updating and ‘running’ the thread, so to speak, seem a bit superfluous. It would solve the out of date OP issue, certainly.
It is Veowyn’s thread of course, so her say is the most important. If the entire way the thread is run is going to be different from her intention, then I agree with Nessa’s original proposal, of looking at the need for a new thread etc to accommodate that sort of overhaul.
However, the marketplace here, as was, was definitely in need of a hands on and active ThreadRunner, in order to organise and keep track of all the associated Guilds and Fellowships and apprenticeships and Traderoutes and so forth that we initially had going on. Something that I understand Veowyn managed for a considerable time. Clearly the MT marketplace of Nuplaza has not really put any of that complicated foundation to use. So it now could far more easily resemble just a more generic Free RP thread. Which yes, would absolutely make the job of constantly updating and ‘running’ the thread, so to speak, seem a bit superfluous. It would solve the out of date OP issue, certainly.
It is Veowyn’s thread of course, so her say is the most important. If the entire way the thread is run is going to be different from her intention, then I agree with Nessa’s original proposal, of looking at the need for a new thread etc to accommodate that sort of overhaul.
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Nazgûl
Posts: 2756
Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 11:02 am
Of all the solutions to the "Marketplace Problem" I think @Lailyn's comes closest to fixing it. With activity wax and waning not just in Gondor's market thread but Mordor, the Shire, Bree, etc. I think transitioning shopping threads to a more Free RP style is the best way to go. It opens a wider variety of stores with few RPers behind them that can come and go when they are needed or not.
I give my full Frosty support to that experiment, should a new thread indeed get created.
I give my full Frosty support to that experiment, should a new thread indeed get created.
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Winddancer
Posts: 2531
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 11:22 am
Ooooh I love @Lailyn's idea! Totally on board with a run itself kind of thread <3
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Ilmarë
Posts: 3005
Joined: Sat May 16, 2020 9:29 pm
Speaking for myself as an RPer, I’ve always personally found market threads with strict shop rights and ownership highly restrictive, and thus tended to avoid them on OP - and only recently played in the Marketplace here on Nu Plaza.
If @Veowyn is amenable to it, I like @Lailyn ’s idea a lot given the current realities of the Plaza that have already been mentioned. I’d also highlight @Winddancer’s Umbar thread as a really great example of a free RP thread with some specific shops (*without* fixed member owners) listed as starting places, and with the freedom to create your own locations.
If @Veowyn is amenable to it, I like @Lailyn ’s idea a lot given the current realities of the Plaza that have already been mentioned. I’d also highlight @Winddancer’s Umbar thread as a really great example of a free RP thread with some specific shops (*without* fixed member owners) listed as starting places, and with the freedom to create your own locations.
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Fool of a Took
Posts: 1261
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 7:12 pm
Firstly, thank you all for taking the time to give your opinions and feedback to my question you are all very amaze and I appreciate you taking the time for this 
I like @Lailyn idea and I think setting up the MT Marketplace or heck even call it Gondorian Marketplace (to include all cities and villages in Gondor, but more about this at a later time) as a thematic free RP would solve the problem
I've sent a message to @Veowyn with the link to my post that started this discussion and told her that we were debating about the thread and giving feedback on what we would like to see. I will let you know when I get a response from her. But please continue to give feedback on what you would like the marketplace to look like, what would you like to see etc. Even if I don't get permission to open a new thread and Veo comes back in her role as a Master of Trade, she will have feedback on her thread and can think about how to incorporate all of it...
*a few minutes after writing the above*
I heard back from @Veowyn and she gave me the green light to open up a new Marketplace thread. She's a bit sad to have to pass it on, but as she doesn't have the time to dedicate to the thread, she's OK with me opening up a new one...
So, with permission obtained I'd like to hear your thoughts? Would you like the new Marketplace to be more structured or a thematic free RP? If you're all more for the free RP type of marketplace would you like it to be solely a Minas Tirith Marketplace or a Gondorian Marketplace? In the sense that the market and trade activities are the themes of the thread, but the locations can vary based on preference and the need of the RP-ers? The only requirement would be that you state the location in your post in bold red e.g. Pelargir market, House of Trade. Does this make sense or would it be too complicated?
you are all very amaze and I appreciate you taking the time for this I like @Lailyn idea and I think setting up the MT Marketplace or heck even call it Gondorian Marketplace (to include all cities and villages in Gondor, but more about this at a later time) as a thematic free RP would solve the problem
I've sent a message to @Veowyn with the link to my post that started this discussion and told her that we were debating about the thread and giving feedback on what we would like to see. I will let you know when I get a response from her. But please continue to give feedback on what you would like the marketplace to look like, what would you like to see etc. Even if I don't get permission to open a new thread and Veo comes back in her role as a Master of Trade, she will have feedback on her thread and can think about how to incorporate all of it...
*a few minutes after writing the above*
I heard back from @Veowyn and she gave me the green light to open up a new Marketplace thread.
She's a bit sad to have to pass it on, but as she doesn't have the time to dedicate to the thread, she's OK with me opening up a new one...So, with permission obtained I'd like to hear your thoughts? Would you like the new Marketplace to be more structured or a thematic free RP? If you're all more for the free RP type of marketplace would you like it to be solely a Minas Tirith Marketplace or a Gondorian Marketplace? In the sense that the market and trade activities are the themes of the thread, but the locations can vary based on preference and the need of the RP-ers? The only requirement would be that you state the location in your post in bold red e.g. Pelargir market, House of Trade. Does this make sense or would it be too complicated?
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Nazgûl
Posts: 2756
Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 11:02 am
Structure works when there is a lot of people and a lot of activity, neither of which NuPlaza has in spades. I think this new Marketplace needs to be a freestyle RP to keep it going. Perhaps a little thematic ideas can be sprinkled in by the TR to liven up play but making it not necessary to RP in (ie can be ignored at the discretion of the RPers).
As far as MT vs "Gondor" marketplaces I am pretty ambivalent, my own thoughts are Pelargir stuff (and the like) should be in the Pelargir thread but again, I'm ambivalent to it either way.
As far as MT vs "Gondor" marketplaces I am pretty ambivalent, my own thoughts are Pelargir stuff (and the like) should be in the Pelargir thread but again, I'm ambivalent to it either way.
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Winddancer
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 11:22 am
I would prefer it to stay MT market place and for it to be free rp style type of thread so we dont have to keep updating the OP.
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Counsellor of Gondor
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 8:37 am
I am sorry to hear that Veowyn shall not be returning to this, because I got the sense that it was a real labour of love for her. But I am glad she has allowed for it to move onwards and be all that it can be, with the least amount of issues. Also, thankyou @Nessa Saelind for, as always, including everyone in your planning/process, to get a sense of what the people want, so to speak. 
I'd advise that you base a new thread around Lailyn's idea of a Marketplace Free RP, which would absolutely solve the issue of tiresome update requirements. You are an admin now, and who knows how busy you may get, after all ? I would second Winddancer and whichever Chaos person that is just above me, and say to keep it based as the Minas Tirith Marketplace. Mostly because yes, we already have Free Rp threads to cover the non-MT areas of Gondor life, and it might get confusing to RP different markets here but the different place itself somewhere else. We are all about the trying to keep it as simple but also as clear as possible for everyone to understand what is where.
You could always mention in the Opening Post that trade routes etc 'can' occur between Minas Tirith and other cities/settlements, so that people are welcome to RP setting out, arriving, planning and organising those as a supplier or a store keeper, etc. That might add a new element to the RP opportunities, without making it a mandatory scary sort of thing to deter all potential participants. A case of only if they want to. They could similarly ignore that whole element if it does not interest them to RP it themselves. If someone does wish to RP a trade route to an area such as Pelargir, this would encourage activity in the fiefdom thread as well as this one, to show both ends of the transactions, etc.
Similarly I would suggest you make it clear that anyone can open a shop, regardless of if there is one of that type already in existence, and I would implore you to state that anyone who wishes to RP as an apprentice learning a trade should arrange that, either with a storekeeper of their choice, or just otherwise NPC their own master to carry that out. To cut through the whole registering licenses and counting/judging learning posts, and so forth that we used to do. You can then be considered as a fully qualified tradesman in that area as soon as both you and your (potentially NPC) mentor are happy to state it so. As for Fellowships and Guilds, I do not believe there are currently enough active participants to have that as a functioning part of the thread, though of course, the existence of such establishments as being 'furniture' of the city would be entirely plausible for people to mention them if relevant.
I'd advise that you base a new thread around Lailyn's idea of a Marketplace Free RP, which would absolutely solve the issue of tiresome update requirements. You are an admin now, and who knows how busy you may get, after all ? I would second Winddancer and whichever Chaos person that is just above me, and say to keep it based as the Minas Tirith Marketplace. Mostly because yes, we already have Free Rp threads to cover the non-MT areas of Gondor life, and it might get confusing to RP different markets here but the different place itself somewhere else. We are all about the trying to keep it as simple but also as clear as possible for everyone to understand what is where.
You could always mention in the Opening Post that trade routes etc 'can' occur between Minas Tirith and other cities/settlements, so that people are welcome to RP setting out, arriving, planning and organising those as a supplier or a store keeper, etc. That might add a new element to the RP opportunities, without making it a mandatory scary sort of thing to deter all potential participants. A case of only if they want to. They could similarly ignore that whole element if it does not interest them to RP it themselves. If someone does wish to RP a trade route to an area such as Pelargir, this would encourage activity in the fiefdom thread as well as this one, to show both ends of the transactions, etc.
Similarly I would suggest you make it clear that anyone can open a shop, regardless of if there is one of that type already in existence, and I would implore you to state that anyone who wishes to RP as an apprentice learning a trade should arrange that, either with a storekeeper of their choice, or just otherwise NPC their own master to carry that out. To cut through the whole registering licenses and counting/judging learning posts, and so forth that we used to do. You can then be considered as a fully qualified tradesman in that area as soon as both you and your (potentially NPC) mentor are happy to state it so. As for Fellowships and Guilds, I do not believe there are currently enough active participants to have that as a functioning part of the thread, though of course, the existence of such establishments as being 'furniture' of the city would be entirely plausible for people to mention them if relevant.
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Winddancer
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What she said
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Nazgûl
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Chaos Nazgûl = Frost, Chaos Admin = Tara
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Counsellor of Gondor
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 8:37 am
I know who you ‘are’ by your icons, sure. But don’t make me try to type out either of your current names in entirety. It’s making me dizzy that you seem to have both adopted alternative caps and non-caps and yet you both have the capital O at the end. Which I suppose is explained by ‘chaos’. But yeh.
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Elwing
Posts: 1587
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Probably goes without saying I'm in favor of the Free RP-style market. Also agree with Windy, Frost, Ercassie on the keeping it to MT and everything else they said. I also love the idea of competing stores (Price Wars!) and the trade routes, @Ercassie!
I didn't play in Gondor on the OP but I am gathering that Veo had a big role in the marketplace. Would it be possible to pay her a little honorary homage in some way in the new thread? Whether naming something after her (or her character, I don't know who she played as the market manager, if that was a thing?) or something such to share a little love and recognize her contributions to the original?
I didn't play in Gondor on the OP but I am gathering that Veo had a big role in the marketplace. Would it be possible to pay her a little honorary homage in some way in the new thread? Whether naming something after her (or her character, I don't know who she played as the market manager, if that was a thing?) or something such to share a little love and recognize her contributions to the original?
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Nazgûl
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 11:02 am
Always thought Frost was easiest to sayErcassie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:47 pm I know who you ‘are’ by your icons, sure. But don’t make me try to type out either of your current names in entirety. It’s making me dizzy that you seem to have both adopted alternative caps and non-caps and yet you both have the capital O at the end. Which I suppose is explained by ‘chaos’. But yeh.
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Ilmarë
Posts: 3005
Joined: Sat May 16, 2020 9:29 pm
@Ercassie - No one is requiring you to type out anything here, and as we've both been reading along and commenting in this thread, it's enough to just use our "default" names if you wish to refer to either of us directly.
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Elder of The Mark
Posts: 1790
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:53 am
I am all for the revamping to a 'free style RP' instead of the currently really hard set variety as I think it will allow for the best flow of activity.
I am also for it remaining a Minas Tirith Marketplace rather than a Gondor one and that repeat shops ARE welcome (as I feel like that will be a fresh take on shops on Nuplaza as most state original shops no double etc.
I am also for it remaining a Minas Tirith Marketplace rather than a Gondor one and that repeat shops ARE welcome (as I feel like that will be a fresh take on shops on Nuplaza as most state original shops no double etc.
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Fool of a Took
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 7:12 pm
Catching up on all of your feedback now and as always thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and ideas with me Let me see if I can sum everything up.
So far my idea for the new Marketplace is a work in progress and I will most likely reach out to people either here or via Discord to ask for advice However, here's a rough sketch of what I envisioned:
That's about it for now. More information forthcoming when I actually write these ideas down and structure them so they make sense. I'm giving myself until the end of August to sort everything out and open up the new thread. It's a long deadline, because I don't know how much free time I'm going to have, work has been rather hectic lately. Most likely I will open the thread earlier, but I wanted to give everyone some sort of timeline so you know.
Let me see if I can sum everything up.- The Marketplace should be a Free RP thread with the market that is based in Minas Tirith.
- Anyone can open a shop, regardless if the same type of shop exists aka repeat shops are welcome.
- A tribute to Veo
- Sort apprentices, masters, guilds.
So far my idea for the new Marketplace is a work in progress and I will most likely reach out to people either here or via Discord to ask for advice
However, here's a rough sketch of what I envisioned: - in the OP state that the Minas Tirith Marketplace is a free RP, give a basic description of the location and a list of possible shops/buildings. Also add the thread guidelines after the description. If you have any suggestions for the type of shop(s), their names or other buildings that should be in the OP feel free to hit me with it or you know send me a DM on Discord
- I would also do a placeholder post, which I would like to use as a repository of useful trade-related links e.g. historical units for measurements, scales, monetary system in Gondor, suggested price list, travel times in Middle Earth, basically anything of use. The same thing that I do in HoH (for reference).
- If you would like the placeholder post can also be used as a registry for people who already own a shop or want to own a shop in the market and RP there on a regular basis - it's not mandatory.
If you want to, I can make the space.
- Regarding the apprentice/master/guild thing my idea was to have a Main Guild Hall of Minas Tirith in the marketplace named in honour of Veo's character, as tribute. The Guild would be the place where an apprentice would register, where they would arrange the T&C of their work with a master of the craft for their desired profession and where the evaluation for advancing into the rank of a master would take place. Anyone can RP this the way they like and as it suits the needs of their RP. There would be no set procedure in place, although I could provide historical example(s) if this would help people
That's about it for now. More information forthcoming when I actually write these ideas down and structure them so they make sense.
I'm giving myself until the end of August to sort everything out and open up the new thread. It's a long deadline, because I don't know how much free time I'm going to have, work has been rather hectic lately. Most likely I will open the thread earlier, but I wanted to give everyone some sort of timeline so you know.- Points: 2 258
Elwing
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 11:34 pm
Ahh Nessa I'm sorry, I meant to reply to this earlier but the week just ran away with me! Overall, I'm excited to see the Marketplace v 2.0!
I think if I understand correctly, the guilds/apprentices will exist as an optional component? As in, if I wanted to jump in and open a shop as character "Bob" selling bread I could do so without being required to register him/his shop in a guild (as I think I understand the market to function currently - correct me if I'm wrong)? Same if I wanted to play an apprentice whether short or long-term?
I love the idea about the Guild Hall in honor of Veo.
Thank you for being open to feedback and allowing discussion on this!
I think if I understand correctly, the guilds/apprentices will exist as an optional component? As in, if I wanted to jump in and open a shop as character "Bob" selling bread I could do so without being required to register him/his shop in a guild (as I think I understand the market to function currently - correct me if I'm wrong)? Same if I wanted to play an apprentice whether short or long-term?
I love the idea about the Guild Hall in honor of Veo.
Thank you for being open to feedback and allowing discussion on this!
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Fool of a Took
Posts: 1261
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 7:12 pm
@Laikirinki - re guilds and apprentices: in a nutshell, yes. If you, or anyone else, need a shop or an apprentice for the purpose of a particular storyline in an RP you just create a shop/stand/whatever (even if something like that already exists) and use it for your RP needs as long as you want/need to. No need to "officially" go register the business with the Guild Hall, unless you want that element in your RP and you (or heck, I as the TR) can just create an NPC clerk who is in charge of the registration process at the Main Guild Hall.
If you, or anyone else, would like to collaborate with another RP-er e.g. say you and I want to open up an artisan bakery together (to use Bob the baker example) and one of us wanted to play the baker and the other their apprentice for a while, it would be a logical idea for us to RP going to the Guild Hall and arranging the T&C of the business (e.g. how much the apprentice needs to be payed, what do they need to do to advance in their profession, how much taxes the baker has to pay etc.). But this is all voluntary/optional, nobody would be "forced" to RP going to the Guild Hall to register their business or that they hired an apprentice. It's just one of the many RP options available to anyone who wants to post at the market Like a prompt or something.
If you, or anyone else, need a shop or an apprentice for the purpose of a particular storyline in an RP you just create a shop/stand/whatever (even if something like that already exists) and use it for your RP needs as long as you want/need to. No need to "officially" go register the business with the Guild Hall, unless you want that element in your RP and you (or heck, I as the TR) can just create an NPC clerk who is in charge of the registration process at the Main Guild Hall. If you, or anyone else, would like to collaborate with another RP-er e.g. say you and I want to open up an artisan bakery together (to use Bob the baker example) and one of us wanted to play the baker and the other their apprentice for a while, it would be a logical idea for us to RP going to the Guild Hall and arranging the T&C of the business (e.g. how much the apprentice needs to be payed, what do they need to do to advance in their profession, how much taxes the baker has to pay etc.). But this is all voluntary/optional, nobody would be "forced" to RP going to the Guild Hall to register their business or that they hired an apprentice. It's just one of the many RP options available to anyone who wants to post at the market
Like a prompt or something. - Points: 3 249
Elder of The Mark
Posts: 1790
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:53 am
So I like the ideas presented especially the Guild hall in honor of Veo.
For the Place Holder I think anyone that would like to have their shop listed in it would be most excellent (especially if it is kept up to date) for who is active who is not though not sure how to define if someone isn't active? Perhaps if they haven't been on the plaza at all in a month? Not necessarily that they have to post IN the Marketplace but if they are on plaza and they are tagged at least there is a chance they will see it and react vs someone that hasn't been on the plaza at all?
For the Place Holder I think anyone that would like to have their shop listed in it would be most excellent (especially if it is kept up to date) for who is active who is not though not sure how to define if someone isn't active? Perhaps if they haven't been on the plaza at all in a month? Not necessarily that they have to post IN the Marketplace but if they are on plaza and they are tagged at least there is a chance they will see it and react vs someone that hasn't been on the plaza at all?
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Elwing
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That's awesome! I like the balance between free RP style and more structured opportunities if people want them. While I tend to prefer free-er type stuff, I am sure there are others who prefer or are inspired by more structure, so I'm glad to see the new thread looks like it will allow for some of both.
