Lord of the Rings Fanatics Plaza

There's a lot going on on this wild free-for-all mini-Plaza of ours!

BUT there are definitely some things that would benefit from a little more planning/coordination. I've seen mentions of IK Word Sleuth, IK Poetry, and probably other things too here and there? But there isn't really anywhere to figure that stuff out right now. Also, one of the first things people suggested we try to do on this site is to avoid having too many redundant threads / activities in multiple places.. better to have ONE instance of an activity located somewhere that everyone can go to.

@Mor Toast's announcement thread above will hopefully help with the latter - people can check there and see if there's already a version of something they're thinking of starting, and if there is then it's probably better to go there instead and keep the inter-kingdom synergy going strong. But feel free to also use this thread to discuss possible activities to start up, figure out what Kingdom should host what activity, ask for help in organizing something, or anything else that might benefit from some centralized planning. Liberal use of the @tagging function also seems like a very acceptable thing here - if you need to get someone's attention for something related to an activity, this might be a place to do it.

Extra notes:

1) If it feels like something requires enough discussion that it warrants its own thread to hash out, that's great -- if you get my attention I'll put a link to it in this post so people know where to find it.

2) The existence of this thread isn't meant to harsh the current "if you want something, just make it [as long as it doesn't already exist]" buzz of this site! It's just a place that might help with stuff that isn't easily coordinated that way.

3) And finally, it's best to keep planning for stuff that's clearly forum-specific inside the existing Kingdom OOC threads - hopefully this thread will fill a need for that kind planning thread specifically for Inter-Kingdom or not-yet-Kingdom-specific stuff.

Make sense? If so, have at it! If not.. don't mind me, I'll just hang out here myself

Totally in favour of one game in one kingdom! <3 As small as we still are, it encourages us to go to other kingdoms and explore/join in and I love that. I did think we had become too insular when every kingdom had their own version, cause then there was no need to leave their own kingdom. And we should all know by now that if our own character doesnt fit in that kingdom, that we can then make an npc that can :)

@Winddancer The only hiccup with having one game in one kingdom is figuring out how to do teams that were traditionally kingdom based, but I know we could easily get things worked out.

I'm not volunteering to run anything at this time but I'm happy to help set up things like scoring and ranking systems for different games.

I'll note the last time I can recall that Debate happened (circa 2010ish?) we had mixed teams with participants from different kingdoms and I came up with a way to attribute scores to each Kingdom based on the performance of individuals even though there wasn't kingdom-specific teams. That would probably be easier to do for things like Drill and Poetry than Word Sleuth, but if anyone is interested I'm happy to help devise scoring systems.

Dimcairien Luiniel wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 5:06 pm @Winddancer The only hiccup with having one game in one kingdom is figuring out how to do teams that were traditionally kingdom based, but I know we could easily get things worked out.

Oh no, I mean games like Thief hunt, or Lava Snake Racing, those kind of games :)

@Mojo, I’d love to see the debates come back. I never took part in them, but thoroughly enjoyed reading them.

As for the Word Sleuth, I’m the one who has been bringing that up. I’ve been considering putting together a practice game in the Minas Tirith. I just haven’t done it yet. Like I said on the Facebook group, I’m thinking it’d probably be best to do practice matches in the interest kingdoms then can do inter kingdom matches. But I guess that can be discussed further.

@Turin Ringhûn glad to hear you enjoyed them! I was thinking about something similar for Debates with sort of a practice exercise in making arguments and rebuttals before we get back into full-fledged debating.

@Winddancer Gotcha. That makes more sense.

@Turin Ringhûn Provided I can figure out the photo formatting stuff, I'd be happy to give shot at hosting a practice WS match in Imladris. If it's a good idea to have more than one practice match going at once.

I really want to play Word Sleuth though I can't commit to running anything. I wouldn't mind photoshopping letter tiles around, if that would be useful.

If we move past practice matches for any real IK stuff, I would suggest everyone just sign up in one place instead of in kingdoms? Then teams could be sorted out and kingdoms combined based on the numbers. For competition's sake it might be nice to pair up the same kingdoms across different activities...but that's probably a bridge to cross later

@Aerlinn That was similar to what we did the last time we ran Debate...we had a sign-up thread then whoever signed up was split into 2 teams for the match. The debate was scored like normal (each post received a score and a winning team was decided). To make the overall kingdom standings, we had a formula that factored in the scores from all the participants per kingdom.

I think that idea to sign up for games and then have the individuals scores be factored into an overall Kingdom Standings makes the most sense for most events (might be harder for something like Word Sleuth where the team all works together, but I think it still could be done).

So I made a WordSleuth thread. I've already posted this info info in the announcement thread, but since it sort of pertains to IK stuff, figured it wouldn't hurt to advertise here as well.

https://lotrfanaticsplaza.com/forum/vie ... f=10&t=215

@Dimcairien Luiniel, you beat me to it you meany.

I got mine up in Minas Tirith now, here. (edit at 11:13 pm eastern time) Deleted MT Word Sleuth thread.
In mine, I had used links to the the archived rules and to the scrabble dictionary to save a little room on the opening post.

This is not an Admin Decree or anything, but my take on this is that it would probably be better to name the currently ongoing Word Sleuth match in Imladris to the Turin Ringhûn Inaugural Word Sleuth Practice Match in honour of you initiating the conversation around Word Sleuth (which is much appreciated by all!), and then stick to the just one Word Sleuth match right now. And it would make sense to use the one that's already been created and has people signed up for it and everything. Then if that pans out, either hosting a subsequent one in MT (run by yourself, presumably) or doing the whole Inter Kingdom thing.

Unless you folks really think there's a benefit to having 2 simultaneous Word Sleuth matches - I don't know anything about Word Sleuth really so yous can decide that, but it seems we're generally on board with the no-repeated-games thing. Credit aside, it's gonna be a lot more fun for everyone to have one active game than two that kinda fizzle out.

Aw, I like that idea, naming it after me. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: muahahahah.

I'm fine with postponing the one I started in MT for now, as no one has signed up yet, and see how the one in Imladris plays out. What do you think Dim?

In other news, I'm working on creating a board for Imladris so it isn't left out. I don't know if I'll try my hand at making a Fangorn board though.

Mojo wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 5:28 pm I'll note the last time I can recall that Debate happened (circa 2010ish?) we had mixed teams with participants from different kingdoms and I came up with a way to attribute scores to each Kingdom based on the performance of individuals even though there wasn't kingdom-specific teams.

Wasn't that "us"? Also, I think it was closer to 2012/2013-ish. I know that I did some debates in late grad school and early post-doc. You've gotten a bit treeish, my friend.

Mojo wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 12:51 am I was thinking about something similar for Debates with sort of a practice exercise in making arguments and rebuttals before we get back into full-fledged debating.

Probably would be how we have to start. Maybe a "free for all" style where there's an open question. People can chime in for any side they like, but there's a designated judge to score posts so that debaters earn points. Might need to have signups to make sure there would be people on both sides. Give some amount of time for everyone to submit their own opening post, and then it becomes a free-for-all. Time ends at "last argument/rebuttal + X days" (to avoid waiting until the last minute to get a word in), perhaps allowing for "I am planning a response, but need a little more time".

@Túrin is baaaaaack! My MAN!

Oh no. Turin. He said I stole his name. *hides*

@Dimcairien Luiniel, I've added an imladris board to my word sleuth board album for you to steal. https://ibb.co/Z2PZbCr

*grabs pitchfork and torch*

Also, I gotta say I'm happy that Mojo still has his touch for meme/captions.

@Turin Ringhûn There had been too much talk and not enough action around it. Sorry for stealing your thunder, but thank you so much for the idea. :smiley8: Should I add you as a player?

@Narv I'll go ahead and do that. :D

@Turin Ringhûn & @Dimcairien Luiniel I found an old Fangorn Word Sleuth board as well that you can use, I had posted it here: https://lotrfanaticsplaza.com/forum/vie ... euth#p2514

Thanks @Mojo. I’ll add it to my album for people to steal/use.

@Dimcairien Luiniel, looks like you got 2 full teams signed up.

@Narv @Turin Ringhûn @Dimcairien Luiniel (you three are the correct addresses for Admin questions, right?)

A while back I wrote an essay on halfir's old thread on Tom Bombadil, 'Peeling the Onion.' I had thought of sending it to the online Journal of Tolkien Research. But now the plaza is back I'd rather post it on here if possible. In the old days there was a Scholars Forum, and this seems to me the best place for this essay. So I'm actually asking two things: (i) would you consider reviving the Scholars Forum? and (ii) would you consider my essay on halfir's thread a possible contribution?

I'll add that I would be happy to take on responsibility for overseeing a revived forum.

Let me know what you'all think about this? cheers. simon

Hi @simon -- myself, @Sil and @Uruva are the current 'admins' -- but that's a rather temporary arrangement and we're working on getting some more long-term leadership in place soon. For that reason I think I might prefer to defer on the question of a Scholar's Forum for the moment (I personally never knew much about how the original Scholar's Forum worked, being a pitifully unlearned lorist myself). But if it was something that was sustainable on a smaller site like this, and if we could get some (at least somewhat) ongoing contributions to it from experts, then I could see that being a very cool thing. And of course your essay would be a perfect inclusion in such a place!

Do other Lore people have opinions on whether a renewed Scholar's Forum would be a good idea for this iteration of the plaza? @Dorwiniondil, @geordie, @Saranna, @Troelsfo, or of course anyone else with thoughts on the matter?

It would be a good idea in principle, but I remember how much energy @halfir had to expend just to keep it going.

I should like to see a new Scholars' Forum, but which of us has the contacts with the said Scholars or the persuasive skills of @halfir?

There can be no doubt that @halfir's work on the Scholars' forum cannot be replaced by any single person. I do wonder, however, whether a group of us, such as us who stewarded the lore fora back in the original plaza, could, collectively, shoulder the task? We each have contacts, and we each could help. And if we would aim at publishing some 3–5 essays per year, it would be one for each per year ...

@Dorwiniondil, @geordi, @Saranna, and not least @Lord of the Rings – what say ye?

Would it be better as a forum for comment, or as a collection of published essays in library pages?

Edit to tag @Boromir88

Sil wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:36 pm Would it be better as a forum for comment, or as a collection of published essays in library pages?

The old one was like the collection of published essays. i would push for a new one, if there is one, to allow comments. (speaking as an author, the new online JTR is in some ways preferable to Tolkien Studies because it is open access. but it can feel frustrating to put a paper up on an open access forum and not receive feedback).

I think it could be restored either as a library of texts by recognised scholars or as a forum in which they would have to accept comments (sensible ones!) Would any Tolkien Scholar you can think of actually object to being commented on?

I am here to volunteer myself as KD's IK...coordinator? helper? You know what I mean *g*

If anyone would like some input on putting together a scheduling and/or scoring system for their IK competition, I'm happy to help. I love that kind of stuff.

That is a baller banner

I'm super late to this, but the idea of debate excites me so much. I don't remember how long I was involved with that, but I know I ran it for a couple of years before it died out, and that was why I stopped posting on the old Plaza to begin with.

I think @Mojo @Turin Ringhûn @Túrin have all rumbled about debate at some point, some more rumbly than others, but I'm not sure where all that landed. I guess it's still airborne

Did someone say.....DEBATE?? *is immediately excited*

Still meaning to get to that Fangorn thread of yours, Mojo.

Also, great to see you found your way here, Gia!

I think it was more of Mojo and Turin who spoke of Debate. I more rumbled about Word Sleuth. I never partook in debate, but I sure did like reading them.

Personally I am both up and down for debate, if you see what I mean. We'd just have to re-imagine the system a bit, away from the IK format given the lack of participants. Mojo already floated at least one idea on that front at least on discord, from what I recall.

I would certainly consider joining Debate again, but it all depends on what sort of job prospects I end up having. My guess is Debate would run similarly to how I have done WS - grab a bunch of people and randomly assign them to teams. I believe Mojo has some way of assigning points to kingdoms based on individual and team posts?

Yes! @Princess Gia may recall some of the details as well, but I found a spreadsheet that had the scoring system we used the last time I participated in Debate (which would've been around 2012ish, I think?

That was during the "Regions" stage of the Plaza and we had people sign up to participate in a debate, then randomly chose teams. From there, the points that were earned by people for their Main Posts and Rebuttal posts got assigned to their respective Kingdoms in the overall standings. I think that system worked very well and was a lot of fun because it enabled you to team up and work with people that you did not always get to work with when it was solely Kingdom vs Kingdom competitions. I'm happy to dig it out and provide some more details on how the scoring worked, and maybe even consider doing a trial run for practice/fun kind of like Word Sleuth?

That said, if people have the itch to do Debate-related activities, there are at least two threads right now that are inviting debate-esque posts:
Absurd ArgumENTs in Fangorn -> https://lotrfanaticsplaza.com/forum/vie ... f=16&t=272
The Were Evil in Mordor -> https://lotrfanaticsplaza.com/forum/vie ... f=14&t=291

@Mojo - That sounds about right to me!

This is the last schedule I had for debate:

1st of the Month 00:01 GMT Debate opens. Sign-up Phase Begins.
4th of the Month 00:01 GMT Sign-up Phase Ends. Teams Announced. Planning Phase Begins.
14th of the Month 00:01 GMT Main Argument Phase Begins.
21st of the Month 00:01 GMT Main Argument Phase Ends. Cross-Examination Phase Begins.
23rd of the Month 00:01 GMT Cross-Examination Questions Due.
25th of the Month 00:01 GMT Cross-Examination Answers Due. Rebuttal Phase Begins.
29th of the Month 00:01 GMT Rebuttal Phase Ends. Last Word Phase Begins.
31st of the Month/1st of Next Month 00:01 GMT Last Word Phase Ends. Debate Ends.
14th of the Next Month 00:01 GMT Judgment should be up by no later than this date.

These were the last known rules and the handbook that I have, from 2013:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P2Y23k ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FyLXBg ... sp=sharing

There's a lot of it lol.

Wow we had....so many rules! I mean, I remember that there was a reason we had each one (and I was probably responsible for quite a few of them ) but....whew, kinda makes my head spin now.

Wasn't there a rule called "The rule the Mojo hates"?

I thought so, but this was all I had! I only have stuff from the four seasons or so I ran debate.

And yes, soooo many rules lol! Seems excessive now haha!

So I am thinking about maybe setting up a "practice" debate like we had a practice Word Sleuth match...any thoughts?

This is basically me right now:

If you build it, they will come.