The worlds of J.R.R. Tolkien
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
This is the title of John Garth's latest book. It's a significant publication, and I've just finished reading my advance copy. I hope to say more in the next few days. Meanwhile I'll just say that this is an author you can usually buy on sight, and The Worlds of Tolkien is no exception. It is relatively expensive (£25.00), but definitely worth it.
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
I should have said, it's expected about 9 June.
- Points: 2 867
Ilmarë
Posts: 3005
Joined: Sat May 16, 2020 9:29 pm
Very good to know! I'll be keeping an eye out here for your more extended thoughts. 
- Points: 292
Councillor of Imladris
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 11:57 am
I have, thankfully, received a nice notification from the bookseller where I pre-ordered my copy, that my order is on the way I am looking very much forward to this new book from John.
I am looking very much forward to this new book from John.- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
A very quick comment: for those who don't know, it's about "real-world" places that did, or may have, or didn't inspire Tolkien. The cover is an artist's interpretation of the valley of Lauterbrrunnen, renowned as the almost certain inspiration for Rivendell / Imladris.
- Points: 292
Councillor of Imladris
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 11:57 am
Just “almost certain”? And they say that I am hard to convince ... 
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
OK, certain sure! :-)
- Points: 231
Khazad Elder
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 8:46 pm
:smiley8: Heading over to amazon now to bookmark it right now, thank you for the heads up!
- Points: 173
Councillor of Imladris
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:30 am
I'll have to look into this one! What are some of the other works/commentaries by John Garth? I'm not familiar with the name.
- Points: 552
Scholar of Imladris
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 2:10 am
John Garth is best known for writing Tolkien and the Great War, which is one of the best biographies of Tolkien ever written (though it doesn't cover his entire life) and a great piece of scholarship about the early stages of the legendarium. It has the added benefit of being a relatively accessible read even if you're not knee-deep in Tolkien studies.Lúthien Tinúviel wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 3:17 am I'll have to look into this one! What are some of the other works/commentaries by John Garth? I'm not familiar with the name.
- Points: 292
Councillor of Imladris
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 11:57 am
My copy arrived today ... I probably won't be posting as frequently over the next few days as I did yesterday ... :smiley8: (right now, I miss the "reading" emoji from the old Plaza)
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
First impressions: 1) the “book as object ” (NB: this is all about the hardback – there is no paperback yet)
I was immediately struck by how well-made the book is: firm solid boards, strong but flexible spine, heavy paper – and its visual impression; the page layout is welcoming, there is copious use of illustrations small and large (full page and occasionally more), individual topics are dealt with in ‘panels’, and the general effect is attractive and inviting. It looks as though it’s going to be a pleasure to read. Although not a mammoth (208 p.), it is of substantial size (26.5 x 21.5 cm) and consequent heft, which means that it’s not ideal for reading in bed (experto credite!), though quite comfortable to have on your lap.
So much for the form. More about the content when I’ve had a chance to get my thoughts together
I was immediately struck by how well-made the book is: firm solid boards, strong but flexible spine, heavy paper – and its visual impression; the page layout is welcoming, there is copious use of illustrations small and large (full page and occasionally more), individual topics are dealt with in ‘panels’, and the general effect is attractive and inviting. It looks as though it’s going to be a pleasure to read. Although not a mammoth (208 p.), it is of substantial size (26.5 x 21.5 cm) and consequent heft, which means that it’s not ideal for reading in bed (experto credite!), though quite comfortable to have on your lap.
So much for the form. More about the content when I’ve had a chance to get my thoughts together
Last edited by Dorwiniondil on Mon May 18, 2020 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Points: 150
Orc
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 2:18 pm
Oh wow I had no idea to expect a new Garth book! I'm glad to know I have something to look forward to in the immediate future. I've fallen out of the habit of reading new Tolkien books as they've come out, but I'll definitely put this one on the to-order list. Thanks for the heads up @Dorwiniondil!
- Points: 109
Scholar of Gondor
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 9:26 pm
Good grief! Not only has my copy not arrived yet; when I checked with amazon, all I got was the usual 'we'll send you an email' message. Harrumph!
- Points: 214
Chef
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 7:09 pm
Ooh, good books to read! I will have to check out the two books mentioned here and see if there's connections to them out here in Texas. I hope so! My husband's big into World War I stuff, so I think he would read Tolkien and the Great War too.
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
Excuse the long delay. Real life has to tendency to disrupt.
I emphasise that this is not intended as a considered review, but simply as a first impression.
Anyway, now to the actual text. There are 11 chapters, arranged thematically rather than chronologically, although there is an overall broad progression through stages of Tolkien’s development, so the first chapter “England to the Shire” is much concerned with Tolkien’s childhood, “Four Winds” deals with early influences (one new one to me, though obvious in retrospect, was Longfellow’s Song of Hiawatha), and “The Land of Lúthien” traces the changes in the Legendarium from the “mythology for England”, through various stages, until its place is taken by the Shire and above all hobbits, whom John describes felicitously as “the full English”. “The Shore and the Sea” brings in an array of shorelands that were familiar to Tolkien, as well as his long sea voyage from South Africa to Britain at the age of 3. A discussion of drowned lands, historical and mythical, culminates in his dream of the Great Wave. “Roots of the Mountains” begins with a detailed account of the 1911 trip to Switzerland, which “laid the foundations for almost every mountain scene Tolkien wrote”. And of course there is Rivendell … The chapter proceeds to discuss caves, with particular reference to Aglarond and Cheddar Gorge.
More to follow, when I can manage..
I emphasise that this is not intended as a considered review, but simply as a first impression.
Anyway, now to the actual text. There are 11 chapters, arranged thematically rather than chronologically, although there is an overall broad progression through stages of Tolkien’s development, so the first chapter “England to the Shire” is much concerned with Tolkien’s childhood, “Four Winds” deals with early influences (one new one to me, though obvious in retrospect, was Longfellow’s Song of Hiawatha), and “The Land of Lúthien” traces the changes in the Legendarium from the “mythology for England”, through various stages, until its place is taken by the Shire and above all hobbits, whom John describes felicitously as “the full English”. “The Shore and the Sea” brings in an array of shorelands that were familiar to Tolkien, as well as his long sea voyage from South Africa to Britain at the age of 3. A discussion of drowned lands, historical and mythical, culminates in his dream of the Great Wave. “Roots of the Mountains” begins with a detailed account of the 1911 trip to Switzerland, which “laid the foundations for almost every mountain scene Tolkien wrote”. And of course there is Rivendell … The chapter proceeds to discuss caves, with particular reference to Aglarond and Cheddar Gorge.
More to follow, when I can manage..
Last edited by Dorwiniondil on Fri May 22, 2020 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Points: 552
Scholar of Imladris
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 2:10 am
Thank you for the impressions, Dorwiniondil! This sounds really interesting (as expected, but still).
- Points: 292
Councillor of Imladris
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 11:57 am
My progress is also quite slow – time stolen from other pursuits that would appear more important or more urgent ...
Currently I am working my way though the "Four Winds" chapter, and as always, I love Garth's style. Quite likely his journalist background helps him, but his prose is always more ... hmm ... approachable? than many academic texts (although I insist that e.g. Verlyn Flieger is very much worth the effort!).
At this point I shan't say more, but I, too, hope to be able to provide some more considered commentary later on.
Currently I am working my way though the "Four Winds" chapter, and as always, I love Garth's style. Quite likely his journalist background helps him, but his prose is always more ... hmm ... approachable? than many academic texts (although I insist that e.g. Verlyn Flieger is very much worth the effort!).
At this point I shan't say more, but I, too, hope to be able to provide some more considered commentary later on.
- Points: 79
Istari Savant
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 10:17 pm
Yep, just ordered it from Mr. Bezos & Co. Hardcover $29.95.
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
At last I've got round to completing my scan through the book, continuing from "Roots of the Mountains".
Before I get onto “Rivers, Lakes and Waterlands”: in Shore and the Sea I forgot to mention the Straight Road to Valinor.
Anyway, Rivers, etc. There are various rivers - Loudwater, prone to flash floods, especially with a little help from Elrond, the Withywindle, and the calm waters of the sleepy Land Of Wilows, identified partly with the Cherwell and the notorious Oxford “sleepies”. Mentions are also made, among other things, of the waters of marshlands and the Dead Marshes, castles, the Carrock and river names, including Nimrodel. “Tree-woven Lands”: in dealing with such an arboreal author as Tolkien, we expect accounts of individual trees (e.g Charles II’s Oaktree and the holm-oak in Ithilien) and woods and forests: Doriath, Lothlórien and its mellyrn, Mirkwood and the old German Hercynian Forest (do not mess with this one!), and the Old Forest. Along the way there’s mention of woodwoses, and of Dent’s Garth, the ‘hemlock glade’ where Edith danced (with an excellent photo by Michael Flowers), a comparison of cathedrals with forests, and finally the late lamented pinus nigra. Then it’s “Ancient imprints”. Here we go to a mixture of archaeology, myth, and history, whether feigned or unfeigned., including the Picts, ‘hollow hills’ (chamber tombs) and underground dwellings in general; also ancient ruins, including ‘eald enta geweorc’, lake dwellings and iron-age forts, as well as stone circles, standing stones, and white horses, particularly at Uffington.
“Watch and ward” is a particularly significant chapter. It’s concerned with seats of lore and especially towers of guard, including the tower of Babel and Radcliffe Camera, and especially Minas Tirith, which has a page and a bit for a depiction by Alan Lee. The two Birmingham towers are dismissed in two paragraphs, before we pass on to the “allegory” of the tower In ‘Beowulf: the monsters and the critics ‘ (‘from the top of that tower the man had been able to look out upon the sea’), and the possible influence of Faringdon Folly both on that and on Orthanc.
“Places of War” more or less speaks for itself, concentrating as it does largely on the Great War and the T.C.B.S. and their influence on Tolkien’s writing, with tanks at Gondolin, the Dead Marshes (again), hobbit-holes and Mewlips. But it’s the real war that takes centre stage. The last chapter, “Craft and Industry” Is largely centred on Birmingham, with its artisan past and bleaker industrial present, but including a strong element of ‘Arts and Crafts”. Then the focus shifts, via the Black Country, to Oxford, the motor industry and consequent ills, highlighting Tolkien’s largely negative view of modern industry. The book ends with the suggestion that ‘Middle-earth’ is less a ‘mythology for England’ or Britain only, but for a world “that sorely needs every inspiration to save itself.”
Before I get onto “Rivers, Lakes and Waterlands”: in Shore and the Sea I forgot to mention the Straight Road to Valinor.
Anyway, Rivers, etc. There are various rivers - Loudwater, prone to flash floods, especially with a little help from Elrond, the Withywindle, and the calm waters of the sleepy Land Of Wilows, identified partly with the Cherwell and the notorious Oxford “sleepies”. Mentions are also made, among other things, of the waters of marshlands and the Dead Marshes, castles, the Carrock and river names, including Nimrodel. “Tree-woven Lands”: in dealing with such an arboreal author as Tolkien, we expect accounts of individual trees (e.g Charles II’s Oaktree and the holm-oak in Ithilien) and woods and forests: Doriath, Lothlórien and its mellyrn, Mirkwood and the old German Hercynian Forest (do not mess with this one!), and the Old Forest. Along the way there’s mention of woodwoses, and of Dent’s Garth, the ‘hemlock glade’ where Edith danced (with an excellent photo by Michael Flowers), a comparison of cathedrals with forests, and finally the late lamented pinus nigra. Then it’s “Ancient imprints”. Here we go to a mixture of archaeology, myth, and history, whether feigned or unfeigned., including the Picts, ‘hollow hills’ (chamber tombs) and underground dwellings in general; also ancient ruins, including ‘eald enta geweorc’, lake dwellings and iron-age forts, as well as stone circles, standing stones, and white horses, particularly at Uffington.
“Watch and ward” is a particularly significant chapter. It’s concerned with seats of lore and especially towers of guard, including the tower of Babel and Radcliffe Camera, and especially Minas Tirith, which has a page and a bit for a depiction by Alan Lee. The two Birmingham towers are dismissed in two paragraphs, before we pass on to the “allegory” of the tower In ‘Beowulf: the monsters and the critics ‘ (‘from the top of that tower the man had been able to look out upon the sea’), and the possible influence of Faringdon Folly both on that and on Orthanc.
“Places of War” more or less speaks for itself, concentrating as it does largely on the Great War and the T.C.B.S. and their influence on Tolkien’s writing, with tanks at Gondolin, the Dead Marshes (again), hobbit-holes and Mewlips. But it’s the real war that takes centre stage. The last chapter, “Craft and Industry” Is largely centred on Birmingham, with its artisan past and bleaker industrial present, but including a strong element of ‘Arts and Crafts”. Then the focus shifts, via the Black Country, to Oxford, the motor industry and consequent ills, highlighting Tolkien’s largely negative view of modern industry. The book ends with the suggestion that ‘Middle-earth’ is less a ‘mythology for England’ or Britain only, but for a world “that sorely needs every inspiration to save itself.”
- Points: 2 867
Ilmarë
Posts: 3005
Joined: Sat May 16, 2020 9:29 pm
This closing sentiment hits so close to home. I'm excited to get my copy next week!Dorwiniondil wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:31 pm The book ends with the suggestion that ‘Middle-earth’ is less a ‘mythology for England’ or Britain only, but for a world “that sorely needs every inspiration to save itself.”
- Points: 1 177
Chieftain of The Mark
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 15, 2020 10:53 am
Thanks for the heads up on this, folks. I read Tolkien & The Great War many years back and remember it fondly. I'll definitely follow up on comments in this thread and order a copy.
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
In fact the text of the book doesn’t strictly speaking end with the words I quoted. There is a 2-page Appendix, dealing with the facts of Lydney and the ‘Vyne ring’, and with William Morris and the Western Front. This is a very necessary couple of pieces of debunking, of which otherwise there is thankfully little in the book – odd pieces like the dismissal of the Birmingham “Two Towers”, and the occasional mention in the copious Endnotes. Otherwise the tone of the book is thankfully positive.
A final comment: I’ve mentioned the copious, varied and excellent illustrations, and this, together with the format, has led some people to call it a “coffee-table” book. In my understanding, this implies a book of mainly large-format pictures, with accompanying text. In fact, this book is the converse. The pictures are of very various size and shape, but above all they serve as illustrations to the text, which is the heart of the book. It certainly isn’t just a picture book.
And of course at £25.00 it is really a bargain! It’s worth saving for – or persuading someone to buy it for you …
A final comment: I’ve mentioned the copious, varied and excellent illustrations, and this, together with the format, has led some people to call it a “coffee-table” book. In my understanding, this implies a book of mainly large-format pictures, with accompanying text. In fact, this book is the converse. The pictures are of very various size and shape, but above all they serve as illustrations to the text, which is the heart of the book. It certainly isn’t just a picture book.
And of course at £25.00 it is really a bargain! It’s worth saving for – or persuading someone to buy it for you …
- Points: 1 177
Chieftain of The Mark
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 15, 2020 10:53 am
I've pre-ordered the book on Amazon (UK) this morning. It was priced at £17.98 with postage of £2.99 if you're not a Prime member. Roll on 16th June![color]
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
Well done Aodh! Enjoy!
- Points: 56
Herald of Imladris
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 5:16 pm
Also, there's a very nice review in today's Times (04.06.20).
- Points: 109
Scholar of Gondor
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 9:26 pm
ah, the day has come at last! My copy arrived this morning. I can only endorse what Dorwiniondil has said above; this really is a splendid book. :-)
What's more; our son popped round to drop off some shopping the other day, and he managed to get a copy of The Times for us, too; so I have the review to cut out and keep. Excellent!
What's more; our son popped round to drop off some shopping the other day, and he managed to get a copy of The Times for us, too; so I have the review to cut out and keep. Excellent!
- Points: 2 867
Ilmarë
Posts: 3005
Joined: Sat May 16, 2020 9:29 pm
Received mine today as well! It appears to have taken a little bit of a beating while in transit 
, but I'm excited to dig in.
, but I'm excited to dig in.- Points: 1 177
Chieftain of The Mark
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 15, 2020 10:53 am
@geordie & @Tarawen,
Mine also! I hope it reads as well as It feels in the hand. I'll soon find out - work done for the day, and a nice large cup of coffee prepared :smiley10:
Mine also! I hope it reads as well as It feels in the hand. I'll soon find out - work done for the day, and a nice large cup of coffee prepared :smiley10:
- Points: 1 177
Chieftain of The Mark
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri May 15, 2020 10:53 am
I am very much enjoying the book. It's a worthy addition to my Tolkien library. I'm rationing myself to a few pages a day, and deem it will warrant many revisits. The panel inserts are a nice touch, but I might need a decent reading lamp, or new specs, to appreciate them fully
